4 ms·

These conversations are rarely productive because no attempt to find common ground is made. For example you just assume that a coal miner is hard work. I assume

These conversations are rarely productive because no attempt to find common ground is made. For example you just assume that a coal miner is hard work. I assume a coal miner is easy work. You seem to think things like physical exertion, working conditions, or danger define what is “hard work” while I define the chance of failure to define what is hard work. The average coal worker has almost no chance of failure. They are told where to go, told what to do, told how to do it. They do it and then get paid. Easy work. Writing a successful novel is hard work. The author just sits in an air conditioned room in front of a computer for 6 months clicking keys on a keyboard. So why is that hard work? Because they are most likely going to fail to complete the novel, or even having completed it, are likely to fail at gaining a significant audience. Most people who try fail, hence hard work. Neither of us is right or wrong, we just have different world views. Finding common ground between our world views is a critical first step to having any productive conversation.

ranko 4y ago
Miners have a pretty high chance death while on the job - according to https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/osh/os/osar0012.htm https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/osh/os/osar0012.htm, the US death rate in 2007 (because that's the first figure I found) was 24.8 per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers, compared to 4.3 in all private industry. Sounds like a much higher "chance of failure" than most other jobs.
- the_lonely_road 4y ago
  That's not hard work. That's dangerous work. They are completely different things. They didn't fail at attempting to accomplish their goal. They met an unlikely, but well understood risk, of death on the job.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
"The average coal worker has almost no chance of failure." Surely death at their job is failure, and historic chances of coalminer dying on the job used to be extremely high? 'I define the chance of failure to define what is hard work." I define 3 to equal to 4 If you want to say 'free market reqards risk', thats fine, but don't redefine english language to suit your needs If you are replaceable, and more coal minera can be hired in 5 minutes, it does not matter how hard you work and how much you risk. The tip 3 predictors of success are family wealth, what school did you go to and the social connections. None of those are hard work or risk.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
> You seem to think things like physical exertion, working conditions, or danger define what is “hard work” while I define the chance of failure to define what is hard work. So gambling is hard work then? You'll forgive me if I find your definition lacking. Regardless, even under your definition everyone born into wealth has much lower chance and consequence of failure than other people because of their inherited access to greater resources.

ranko 4y ago

Miners have a pretty high chance death while on the job - according to https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/osh/os/osar0012.htm https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/osh/os/osar0012.htm, the US death rate in 2007 (because that's the first figure I found) was 24.8 per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers, compared to 4.3 in all private industry. Sounds like a much higher "chance of failure" than most other jobs.

the_lonely_road 4y ago
That's not hard work. That's dangerous work. They are completely different things. They didn't fail at attempting to accomplish their goal. They met an unlikely, but well understood risk, of death on the job.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

"The average coal worker has almost no chance of failure." Surely death at their job is failure, and historic chances of coalminer dying on the job used to be extremely high? 'I define the chance of failure to define what is hard work." I define 3 to equal to 4 If you want to say 'free market reqards risk', thats fine, but don't redefine english language to suit your needs If you are replaceable, and more coal minera can be hired in 5 minutes, it does not matter how hard you work and how much you risk. The tip 3 predictors of success are family wealth, what school did you go to and the social connections. None of those are hard work or risk.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago

> You seem to think things like physical exertion, working conditions, or danger define what is “hard work” while I define the chance of failure to define what is hard work. So gambling is hard work then? You'll forgive me if I find your definition lacking. Regardless, even under your definition everyone born into wealth has much lower chance and consequence of failure than other people because of their inherited access to greater resources.