3 ms·

The second American civil war is already happening

3 points by nigerian1981 4y ago

incomingpain 4y ago
Robert Reich is saying the war is already happening? >The second American civil war is already occurring, but it is less of a war than a kind of benign separation analogous to unhappily married people who don’t want to go through the trauma of a formal divorce. So not a civil war... the definition of civil war requires deaths. Reading further down the article... he never actually justifies this claim. He explains why there's polarization and such but never legitimately argues there's a civil war ongoing. We haven't gotten there. There is no civil war yet.
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  The prelude to the first US Civil War occurred over several decades. Things don't necessarily go hot all at once. The notion of a second or cold civil war has been in play for some years now, increasingly since 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_American_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_American_Civil_War https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%22cold%20civil%20war%22 https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%22cold%... This follows an earlier peak around 1952, with the low-point in usage per Google Ngram Viewer in 1980: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=cold+civil+war&year_start=1919&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ccold%20civil%20war%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=cold+civil+war...
  - incomingpain 4y ago
    >Things don't necessarily go hot all at once. To me there's no such thing as a cold civil war. If it's not hot, it's not a civil war. The USA has not crossed the line into civil war, it's not too late to exit your echo chambers and start talking to each other again. I wholly agree with that wiki page on debate of a second civil war starting about 2008. Honestly havent seen that page in some time and it's much more verbose. I think from a quick skim it's quite good. "First black president" in the USA was going to be rife with identity politics. No amount of effort would fix this, but you have to deal with the consequences of bringing identity politics back. Not only was there no attempts at all to deal with those consequences... they went even further. Anyone who opposed Obama's policies became a white supremacist. Ben Shapiro for example is a notorious nazi until he was outed as a jew. The next election polling basically showed Clinton was going to crush Trump. The far east blue states showed they were going blue surprising nobody and they declared the election for clinton. Later to find out trump won and the polls were quite wrong. Clinton went around the country and abroad saying trump stole the election. In reality, the rhetoric of calling republicans a bunch of fascist white supremacists made people lie to pollsters. It wasn't safe to admit the truth you were going to support the republicans. They might come for you. Then comes the next election and biden literally said he has a voter fraud organization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRnhBmHYN0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRnhBmHYN0 If this was yet another gaff and it's not, you have to explain this in depth. After him saying this on video, the democrats had to double efforts to ensure transparency and legitimacy of the election occurs. https://www.wlns.com/news/michigan/windows-in-counting-room-at-detroit-tcf-center-being-covered/ https://www.wlns.com/news/michigan/windows-in-counting-room-... Ya that's not what happened if you're ejecting republican challengers over not wearing their mask correctly, locking doors, boarding up windows, and finding 138,000 votes under a desk. Literally the opposite of transparency. We will never know if the election was legitimate or not; it's basically impossible to say it wasn't. Republicans in 49 states submitted bills to 'restrict the vote' but mainly because they see the election as fraudulent. Actions speak louder than words. Midterms are coming. This election won't be 50/50, it's going to have a result that swings wildly one way or the other. Polls are utterly untrustworthy this election. Worse yet, I dont see how either result will go well. Something that did blow my mind. Star Trek Strange New World took a position on this and had such a huge and important message. https://www.indiewire.com/2022/05/star-trek-strange-new-worlds-review-1234721040/ https://www.indiewire.com/2022/05/star-trek-strange-new-worl... Trek is back baby!
    - dredmorbius 4y ago
      Much to disagree with here. Your 4th 'graph in particular differs significantly from reality. Your own personal definition has no bearing on the fact that there is in fact a substantial discussion going back over a decade on precisely the point in question. The Biden clip shown refers to an effort to combat voter fraud. Speaking of echo chambers... It's an unfortunate stumbling over words. Many debunks, though of course the right-fringe went to town on this. https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/11/fact-check-joe-biden-did-not-admit-he-put-togethe-voter-fraud-organization-he-was-talking-about-preventing-voter-fraud.html https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/11/fact-check-joe-bi... I don't believe further discussion here will be fruitful, but thanks.
      - incomingpain 4y ago
        >Your own personal definition has no bearing on the fact that there is in fact a substantial discussion going back over a decade on precisely the point in question. There's no question there is an imminent civil war. I will concede that I spoke in terms of my own definition. I kind of hold back and make there no such thing as a cold civil war because there's better terms and exacerbating or inflaming by calling it a civil war. >The Biden clip shown refers to an effort to combat voter fraud. Speaking of echo chambers... It's an unfortunate stumbling over words. Many debunks, though of course the right-fringe went to town on this. "unfortunate stumbling over words" "the right-fringe" No sir, you don't get away with it that easy. Fact Checking something I can literally watch for myself is not going to work. If you want to say its another gaffe of stumbling over words. This is fine, I don't necessarily believe this but gaffe in which way? He meant to say the opposite or he wasn't meant to admit it? >I don't believe further discussion here will be fruitful, but thanks. For the record, this is not the 'right-fringe' this is virtually all republicans. When Biden said the quiet part out loud. It was now on the democrats to ensure there was nothing to justify doubting the results of the election. Do you not see the imminent civil war? Do you not see your own words are justifying a civil war? Do you not see what a disaster this is?

3 points by nigerian1981 4y ago

Robert Reich is saying the war is already happening? >The second American civil war is already occurring, but it is less of a war than a kind of benign separation analogous to unhappily married people who don’t want to go through the trauma of a formal divorce. So not a civil war... the definition of civil war requires deaths. Reading further down the article... he never actually justifies this claim. He explains why there's polarization and such but never legitimately argues there's a civil war ongoing. We haven't gotten there. There is no civil war yet.

dredmorbius 4y ago
The prelude to the first US Civil War occurred over several decades. Things don't necessarily go hot all at once. The notion of a second or cold civil war has been in play for some years now, increasingly since 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_American_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_American_Civil_War https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%22cold%20civil%20war%22 https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%22cold%... This follows an earlier peak around 1952, with the low-point in usage per Google Ngram Viewer in 1980: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=cold+civil+war&year_start=1919&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ccold%20civil%20war%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=cold+civil+war...
- incomingpain 4y ago
  >Things don't necessarily go hot all at once. To me there's no such thing as a cold civil war. If it's not hot, it's not a civil war. The USA has not crossed the line into civil war, it's not too late to exit your echo chambers and start talking to each other again. I wholly agree with that wiki page on debate of a second civil war starting about 2008. Honestly havent seen that page in some time and it's much more verbose. I think from a quick skim it's quite good. "First black president" in the USA was going to be rife with identity politics. No amount of effort would fix this, but you have to deal with the consequences of bringing identity politics back. Not only was there no attempts at all to deal with those consequences... they went even further. Anyone who opposed Obama's policies became a white supremacist. Ben Shapiro for example is a notorious nazi until he was outed as a jew. The next election polling basically showed Clinton was going to crush Trump. The far east blue states showed they were going blue surprising nobody and they declared the election for clinton. Later to find out trump won and the polls were quite wrong. Clinton went around the country and abroad saying trump stole the election. In reality, the rhetoric of calling republicans a bunch of fascist white supremacists made people lie to pollsters. It wasn't safe to admit the truth you were going to support the republicans. They might come for you. Then comes the next election and biden literally said he has a voter fraud organization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRnhBmHYN0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRnhBmHYN0 If this was yet another gaff and it's not, you have to explain this in depth. After him saying this on video, the democrats had to double efforts to ensure transparency and legitimacy of the election occurs. https://www.wlns.com/news/michigan/windows-in-counting-room-at-detroit-tcf-center-being-covered/ https://www.wlns.com/news/michigan/windows-in-counting-room-... Ya that's not what happened if you're ejecting republican challengers over not wearing their mask correctly, locking doors, boarding up windows, and finding 138,000 votes under a desk. Literally the opposite of transparency. We will never know if the election was legitimate or not; it's basically impossible to say it wasn't. Republicans in 49 states submitted bills to 'restrict the vote' but mainly because they see the election as fraudulent. Actions speak louder than words. Midterms are coming. This election won't be 50/50, it's going to have a result that swings wildly one way or the other. Polls are utterly untrustworthy this election. Worse yet, I dont see how either result will go well. Something that did blow my mind. Star Trek Strange New World took a position on this and had such a huge and important message. https://www.indiewire.com/2022/05/star-trek-strange-new-worlds-review-1234721040/ https://www.indiewire.com/2022/05/star-trek-strange-new-worl... Trek is back baby!
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    Much to disagree with here. Your 4th 'graph in particular differs significantly from reality. Your own personal definition has no bearing on the fact that there is in fact a substantial discussion going back over a decade on precisely the point in question. The Biden clip shown refers to an effort to combat voter fraud. Speaking of echo chambers... It's an unfortunate stumbling over words. Many debunks, though of course the right-fringe went to town on this. https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/11/fact-check-joe-biden-did-not-admit-he-put-togethe-voter-fraud-organization-he-was-talking-about-preventing-voter-fraud.html https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/11/fact-check-joe-bi... I don't believe further discussion here will be fruitful, but thanks.
    - incomingpain 4y ago
      >Your own personal definition has no bearing on the fact that there is in fact a substantial discussion going back over a decade on precisely the point in question. There's no question there is an imminent civil war. I will concede that I spoke in terms of my own definition. I kind of hold back and make there no such thing as a cold civil war because there's better terms and exacerbating or inflaming by calling it a civil war. >The Biden clip shown refers to an effort to combat voter fraud. Speaking of echo chambers... It's an unfortunate stumbling over words. Many debunks, though of course the right-fringe went to town on this. "unfortunate stumbling over words" "the right-fringe" No sir, you don't get away with it that easy. Fact Checking something I can literally watch for myself is not going to work. If you want to say its another gaffe of stumbling over words. This is fine, I don't necessarily believe this but gaffe in which way? He meant to say the opposite or he wasn't meant to admit it? >I don't believe further discussion here will be fruitful, but thanks. For the record, this is not the 'right-fringe' this is virtually all republicans. When Biden said the quiet part out loud. It was now on the democrats to ensure there was nothing to justify doubting the results of the election. Do you not see the imminent civil war? Do you not see your own words are justifying a civil war? Do you not see what a disaster this is?