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20 years here too, UK, I've finally broken the 6 digit bar but I had to move to contracting. My experience made getting job offers simple, but no one wanted to

20 years here too, UK, I've finally broken the 6 digit bar but I had to move to contracting. My experience made getting job offers simple, but no one wanted to pay more. I'd often get lowballs with the offer of kudos for working at that tech firm. £95k seems to be the upper limit at this point here for FTEs.

benjaminwootton 5y ago
Contracting has been a very large component of the London market. Developers have been contracting at £600+ per day, more than £120k per year income, for 15+ years. It has historically been very easy to achieve that if you don’t mind working for a bank. I don’t even think I’m in a bubble with these numbers. I know and have hired hundreds of contractors over the years.
- happymellon 5y ago
  I don't think you are either. It's funny but after hearing about the complete lack of protections for employment in the US, I think I may get better protections here as a contractor.
GordonS 5y ago
I've seen some remote architech/tech lead roles offering up to £125k, but this is a very recent development.
- happymellon 5y ago
  Those would also be quite uncommon, but I have seen them. Usually for Oracle or someone I wouldnt want to go with. Most tech lead roles I've seen topped out at £90k.
  - nly 5y ago
    £100K should be bare minimum for a software engineer with a few years of experience in central London in 2022. 3 bed terraced houses with access to good schools, 50-60 minutes out central, sell for £1M, so if you're entering the area want a family you really want a household income of £200K+.
    - hanoz 5y ago
      Something is very very wrong if you need two parents earning over £100K each to live in a 3 bed terrace an hour out of town.
      - happymellon 5y ago
        Something is very wrong with the UK housing market. It is completely detached from reality, usually because NIMBYS still manage to block new houses from getting built. It's changing now as land that was allocated for housing usually gets central government overriding permission to local authorities. The process is currently: - Building company submit plans for housing - NIMBYS reject it because it's a flood plain. (They always magically become flood plains) - Building company submit alternative plans that are much nicer, give a lot more to the community and build public services. - NIMBYS get it rejected again - Building firm go to central government and just get approval for massive housing development which is most worse that the original plan. Hopefully all these additional houses will reduce the pressure on the housing market but we are hundreds of thousand houses short of required stock for our current population. We have people living long term in hotels because the government can't make them homeless.
      - happymellon 5y ago
        Second reply, because there is too much information here. https://citymonitor.ai/government/england-short-4-million-homes-here-s-how-we-can-build-them-3921 https://citymonitor.ai/government/england-short-4-million-ho... The UK is short about 4 million houses. We have 4 million families who are homeless without anywhere to go. If we banned second home ownership it would only knock about 10% off that number. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2022-0001/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-... That's a pretty crappy situation where we don't even have enough houses for people to rent.
sgt 5y ago
£95k is very decent in the countryside but in London that's nothing to write home about, is it? I don't live in London or even the UK, so my statement is just based on friends living there.
- deergomoo 5y ago
  £95k would be exceptionally good for the vast majority of the UK, and unless you’re trying to buy a house in central London or something it would still be a very good wage there too. Take the last bit with a pinch of salt though—I’ve never lived in London but a number of my friends do.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  Keep in mind that taxes eat quite a bit of that (seemingly more so than in the US).
  - maccard 5y ago
    US taxes are similar to UK taxes, particularly in california. Putting £95k into Salary Calculator [0] says you take home ~67% of your salary after taxes. £95k is ~$120k today, and putting that into this [1] calculator says you take home ~64% of your salary. [0] https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php [1] https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-paycheck-calculator#P5VsfSkyRT https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-paycheck-calculator#...
    - happymellon 5y ago
      So the UK is taxed lower than California? And we have more public services? What do they spend it on?
      - zeku 5y ago
        Mainly military budget if you google it. A common American complaint is "subsidizing" European defense off of our tax dollars. America is also a big spread out place so maintaining it is more expensive than small Euro countries. On my first point, I think we get a rather strategic advantage from being the "Western" police. However I'm just explaining a common critique you'll hear.

benjaminwootton 5y ago

Contracting has been a very large component of the London market. Developers have been contracting at £600+ per day, more than £120k per year income, for 15+ years. It has historically been very easy to achieve that if you don’t mind working for a bank. I don’t even think I’m in a bubble with these numbers. I know and have hired hundreds of contractors over the years.

happymellon 5y ago
I don't think you are either. It's funny but after hearing about the complete lack of protections for employment in the US, I think I may get better protections here as a contractor.

GordonS 5y ago

I've seen some remote architech/tech lead roles offering up to £125k, but this is a very recent development.

happymellon 5y ago
Those would also be quite uncommon, but I have seen them. Usually for Oracle or someone I wouldnt want to go with. Most tech lead roles I've seen topped out at £90k.
- nly 5y ago
  £100K should be bare minimum for a software engineer with a few years of experience in central London in 2022. 3 bed terraced houses with access to good schools, 50-60 minutes out central, sell for £1M, so if you're entering the area want a family you really want a household income of £200K+.
  - hanoz 5y ago
    Something is very very wrong if you need two parents earning over £100K each to live in a 3 bed terrace an hour out of town.
    - happymellon 5y ago
      Something is very wrong with the UK housing market. It is completely detached from reality, usually because NIMBYS still manage to block new houses from getting built. It's changing now as land that was allocated for housing usually gets central government overriding permission to local authorities. The process is currently: - Building company submit plans for housing - NIMBYS reject it because it's a flood plain. (They always magically become flood plains) - Building company submit alternative plans that are much nicer, give a lot more to the community and build public services. - NIMBYS get it rejected again - Building firm go to central government and just get approval for massive housing development which is most worse that the original plan. Hopefully all these additional houses will reduce the pressure on the housing market but we are hundreds of thousand houses short of required stock for our current population. We have people living long term in hotels because the government can't make them homeless.
    - happymellon 5y ago
      Second reply, because there is too much information here. https://citymonitor.ai/government/england-short-4-million-homes-here-s-how-we-can-build-them-3921 https://citymonitor.ai/government/england-short-4-million-ho... The UK is short about 4 million houses. We have 4 million families who are homeless without anywhere to go. If we banned second home ownership it would only knock about 10% off that number. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2022-0001/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-... That's a pretty crappy situation where we don't even have enough houses for people to rent.

sgt 5y ago

£95k is very decent in the countryside but in London that's nothing to write home about, is it? I don't live in London or even the UK, so my statement is just based on friends living there.

deergomoo 5y ago
£95k would be exceptionally good for the vast majority of the UK, and unless you’re trying to buy a house in central London or something it would still be a very good wage there too. Take the last bit with a pinch of salt though—I’ve never lived in London but a number of my friends do.
Nextgrid 5y ago
Keep in mind that taxes eat quite a bit of that (seemingly more so than in the US).
- maccard 5y ago
  US taxes are similar to UK taxes, particularly in california. Putting £95k into Salary Calculator [0] says you take home ~67% of your salary after taxes. £95k is ~$120k today, and putting that into this [1] calculator says you take home ~64% of your salary. [0] https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php [1] https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-paycheck-calculator#P5VsfSkyRT https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-paycheck-calculator#...
  - happymellon 5y ago
    So the UK is taxed lower than California? And we have more public services? What do they spend it on?
    - zeku 5y ago
      Mainly military budget if you google it. A common American complaint is "subsidizing" European defense off of our tax dollars. America is also a big spread out place so maintaining it is more expensive than small Euro countries. On my first point, I think we get a rather strategic advantage from being the "Western" police. However I'm just explaining a common critique you'll hear.