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Those non-Tesla speed numbers are only at certain rare chargers. Remember Volkswagen Group hacking their own emissions tests? Reminds me of that. Good luck tr

by natch 4y ago

Those non-Tesla speed numbers are only at certain rare chargers. Remember Volkswagen Group hacking their own emissions tests? Reminds me of that. Good luck traveling and finding those speeds. It’s more like “oh look we have an existence proof of a handful of fast chargers but none where you are going…” well, OK. I’d rather have a well built out network.

Youden 4y ago
I thought it was odd that you claimed those chargers are rare, turns out they are - in the US. According to [0], there are only a few 350kW chargers in the US, mostly in the Northeast. If you look at the same map in Europe, they're pretty common on long-distance travel routes. I wonder why this is? Is it related to US electrical infrastructure? I know in much of Europe it's common to have 3-phase electricity at home, for example. [0]: https://chargemap.com/map https://chargemap.com/map (click "Search", set minimum power to 350kW and select all plugs)
- clouddrover 4y ago
  > I wonder why this is? It's because Chargemap's US map isn't very good. Try Plugshare (https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.plugshare.com/) or A Better Route Planner (https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://abetterrouteplanner.com/) or the maps from some of the providers themselves like Electrify America (https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/ https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/).
  - Youden 4y ago
    Ah, good catch. So the situation in the US is pretty similar to Europe: there are plenty of fast chargers along the long-distance routes.
clouddrover 4y ago
> Those non-Tesla speed numbers are only at certain rare chargers. Here's a recent road trip by Out of Spec Motoring going from Fort Collins, Colorado to Las Vegas, Nevada. They took 5 EVs - 3 CCS cars, 2 Teslas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFQZhR-PRVo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFQZhR-PRVo The finishing order was Porsche Taycan, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Tesla Model X, Tesla Model 3, Ford Mustang Mach-e. As ever, your mileage may vary. > I’d rather have a well built out network. Then what you want is CCS chargers with all brands of EV being able to charge at all brands of charger. Europe's leading the way on this. Most EVs use CCS in Europe (even Tesla). Tesla is yet to switch to CCS in North America. Maybe they will soon.
- chipsa 4y ago
  Musk's announced that Superchargers will have a CCS connector in some way (separate CCS cable or adapter that plugs onto the top of the Tesla connector).
- natch 4y ago
  I would not trust that event to be a fair assessment. The organizer does sponsorships with auto companies, and I can’t tell whether this was sponsored by Porsche, but, from his behavior, it seems like it was… seeing more and more of this on YouTube lately and it’s often not clearly disclosed. The website mentions transparency, but I really don’t see any transparency here, although I will admit I have not been able to locate any fine print revealing the nature of the relationship with Porsche. The site basically just has a contact button and not much else. It looks not very transparent so I’d be wary. And they had highly uncharacteristic issues with the Tesla superchargers during the trip, which possibly could have been known in advance, as part of the set up to tilt the board against Tesla by choosing this time to travel that route. I stopped by a local Electrify America charger today just out of curiosity, and there was no 350 charger there, only 150. And usually there is only one 350 station if any. The nearby Supercharger in the same parking lot (though not open yet, still roped off) is 250 x 16 stations… kind of an overwhelming advantage there, one that can only be overcome by paid sponsored events that aim to plant false perceptions.
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    Sure. It's all a conspiracy. Here's another conspiracy: https://insideevs.com/news/585238/elon-musk-ccs1-plugs-coming-us-superchargers/ https://insideevs.com/news/585238/elon-musk-ccs1-plugs-comin... The future is CCS chargers for everyone. Don't worry about it.
    - natch 4y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_conclusion_from_affirmative_premises https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_conclusion_from_aff... Even so, when we do get CCS for Tesla, that is yet another piece of good news for Tesla, because then we will have even more charging options over and above having the best Supercharger network, so the Porsche team will do well to get good at buying publicity. Don’t be confused, I’m not saying all this to gloat, but more to say you should think twice before spending money on a competing car if you are relying on sketch events for data points.

by natch 4y ago

Youden 4y ago

I thought it was odd that you claimed those chargers are rare, turns out they are - in the US. According to [0], there are only a few 350kW chargers in the US, mostly in the Northeast. If you look at the same map in Europe, they're pretty common on long-distance travel routes. I wonder why this is? Is it related to US electrical infrastructure? I know in much of Europe it's common to have 3-phase electricity at home, for example. [0]: https://chargemap.com/map https://chargemap.com/map (click "Search", set minimum power to 350kW and select all plugs)

clouddrover 4y ago
> I wonder why this is? It's because Chargemap's US map isn't very good. Try Plugshare (https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.plugshare.com/) or A Better Route Planner (https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://abetterrouteplanner.com/) or the maps from some of the providers themselves like Electrify America (https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/ https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/).
- Youden 4y ago
  Ah, good catch. So the situation in the US is pretty similar to Europe: there are plenty of fast chargers along the long-distance routes.

clouddrover 4y ago

> Those non-Tesla speed numbers are only at certain rare chargers. Here's a recent road trip by Out of Spec Motoring going from Fort Collins, Colorado to Las Vegas, Nevada. They took 5 EVs - 3 CCS cars, 2 Teslas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFQZhR-PRVo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFQZhR-PRVo The finishing order was Porsche Taycan, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Tesla Model X, Tesla Model 3, Ford Mustang Mach-e. As ever, your mileage may vary. > I’d rather have a well built out network. Then what you want is CCS chargers with all brands of EV being able to charge at all brands of charger. Europe's leading the way on this. Most EVs use CCS in Europe (even Tesla). Tesla is yet to switch to CCS in North America. Maybe they will soon.

chipsa 4y ago
Musk's announced that Superchargers will have a CCS connector in some way (separate CCS cable or adapter that plugs onto the top of the Tesla connector).
natch 4y ago
I would not trust that event to be a fair assessment. The organizer does sponsorships with auto companies, and I can’t tell whether this was sponsored by Porsche, but, from his behavior, it seems like it was… seeing more and more of this on YouTube lately and it’s often not clearly disclosed. The website mentions transparency, but I really don’t see any transparency here, although I will admit I have not been able to locate any fine print revealing the nature of the relationship with Porsche. The site basically just has a contact button and not much else. It looks not very transparent so I’d be wary. And they had highly uncharacteristic issues with the Tesla superchargers during the trip, which possibly could have been known in advance, as part of the set up to tilt the board against Tesla by choosing this time to travel that route. I stopped by a local Electrify America charger today just out of curiosity, and there was no 350 charger there, only 150. And usually there is only one 350 station if any. The nearby Supercharger in the same parking lot (though not open yet, still roped off) is 250 x 16 stations… kind of an overwhelming advantage there, one that can only be overcome by paid sponsored events that aim to plant false perceptions.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  Sure. It's all a conspiracy. Here's another conspiracy: https://insideevs.com/news/585238/elon-musk-ccs1-plugs-coming-us-superchargers/ https://insideevs.com/news/585238/elon-musk-ccs1-plugs-comin... The future is CCS chargers for everyone. Don't worry about it.
  - natch 4y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_conclusion_from_affirmative_premises https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_conclusion_from_aff... Even so, when we do get CCS for Tesla, that is yet another piece of good news for Tesla, because then we will have even more charging options over and above having the best Supercharger network, so the Porsche team will do well to get good at buying publicity. Don’t be confused, I’m not saying all this to gloat, but more to say you should think twice before spending money on a competing car if you are relying on sketch events for data points.