10 ms·

For comparison, a Tesla Model S Plaid charges to 80% in 30 minutes, on a v3 supercharger. Reference (exactly 78% in 30 minutes): https://insideevs.com/news/5443

by mrb 4y ago

For comparison, a Tesla Model S Plaid charges to 80% in 30 minutes, on a v3 supercharger. Reference (exactly 78% in 30 minutes): https://insideevs.com/news/544379/tesla-model-s-plaid-supercharging/ https://insideevs.com/news/544379/tesla-model-s-plaid-superc...

petesergeant 4y ago
Very curious about how much difference that 15m takes, and presumably there are at least some studies. A 15m charge to use the restroom, check Instagram, buy a coffee feels very doable in a way that 30m feels like a drag, and more than twice the effort.
- throwawayboise 4y ago
  15 minutes still sounds like a very long time to me, compared to fueling a gasoline vehicle (I rarely use the restroom, check Instagram, or buy a coffee, or do anything else when I do this). I'm typically back on the road in under 5 minutes.
  - theshrike79 4y ago
    15mins of charging every 400-500km for a 80% reduction in travel costs seems fair to me. 10€/100km with diesel/gasoline and 2€/200km for electric is a complete no-brainer.
  - cevn 4y ago
    You also are forced to go to the gas station regardless of whether you go on road trips, so it's probably a wash. Can't remember the last time I went to one.
  - mrb 4y ago
    Think about it this way: with a gas vehicle you wait 5 minutes to refuel maybe once a week, so that's 4+ hours wasted per year. But with an electric vehicle that charges primarily at home you would recharge outside home maybe once every 2 months, so at 15 minutes per charge that's only 1.5 hours wasted per year. 4 hours vs 1.5 hours.
  - franciscop 4y ago
    True, but 15 min still feels into the "small break, mild inconvenience" vs 30 min that feels like a real full stop and rest for the car to charge. Potentially you could also just stop for 5 or 10 mins for a partial charge? 15 mins gets you to 80%, but arguably 5-10 mins might give you enough juice to very comfortably get where you need to go. I know when I forget to charge my phone before heading out, those 5-10 min charge I squeeze before heading out might mean the difference between having battery at the end of the day, or not.
    - natch 4y ago
      >Potentially you could also just stop for 5 or 10 mins for a partial charge? Exactly, that’s the trick! Although I still meet people who don’t get this and needlessly keep their charge topped up while traveling, which is a lot slower.
  - petesergeant 4y ago
    Sure, and I'd argue that 15m can seem like more than 3x longer than 5m does for just this reason. I don't think the minutes and perceived convenience scale linearly
  - exitb 4y ago
    When you primarily charge at home, I'd imagine the need to charge somewhere else most likely to happen after a couple hours of driving, in which case a 15 minute break sounds like a good idea anyway.
    - brandmeyer 4y ago
      We did a road trip like this over spring break. Our last day included 700 miles of driving. Drive for 1.5-2 hours, charge for 12-15 minutes, driver swap, and go. It was easily the best road trip experience of my life. Looking back at the stupid exhausted crap I put myself through in my younger days I can only shake my head.
    - calewis 4y ago
      After 4 years of EV ownership this is exactly how it works for me and my friends, in the UK at least.
      - gambiting 4y ago
        Same here, also UK. Yes stops at public charging stations are longer than stops at petrol stations, but then I pretty much never "fill up" outside of home. So I have already saved hours and hours that would have been spent on filling up a normal petrol car - if I now have to go and wait 30 minutes at a rapid charger, that's still an overall massive saving compared to an ICE.
  - natch 4y ago
    You sound single. And oh so proud of how you have mastered pumping gas. On a trip from San Jose to LA we stop once to charge for 10 minutes, arriving with plenty of charge to spare. I’m not too worried about the “extra” five minutes, which we can make good use of.
- nightski 4y ago
  Agreed but imho it's not just about how long it is for one person. If a significant amount of people start needing to charge we are going to need more throughput at charging stations.
  - robocat 4y ago
    Long congestion delays could occur trying to charge on long trips during holidays. Daily driving is less of a problem since most people can charge at home. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfUJCWRFjig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfUJCWRFjig
    - afarrell 4y ago
      Could this be a market opportunity for a restaurant chain like Sonic or Fuddruckers?
      - theshrike79 4y ago
        In Finland McDonalds has been installing 350kW chargers at their locations for a few years now. It's pretty much the perfect location, the car usually charges faster than you can wolf down your Big Mac and fries. The big super market chains are the other big player, they're taking customers from (overpriced) gas stations. It's usually a 5-10 minute detour to get to the local mega-mart and they have cafes and restaurants in there anyway - without the gas station markup.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - KennyBlanken 4y ago
    Tesla V3 stations are not "oversubscribed" like v2 stations, but they are hamstrung by a max grid connection of 350kW. Once the charging station's own battery is depleted - if all four stalls are in use, they will each deliver 87kW. That is laughably bad.
- trashtester 4y ago
  These cars have ranges around 400 miles / 600 km, and EV owners normally charge them at home regularly. Cold weather or non-economical driving may reduce that a bit, but you are unlikely to need to stop to charge in any given day before driving 200-300 miles (300-450km). If you plan to go another 200+ miles, a 30 minute break may be welcome at that point. Or if you're caught just 50 miles or so from home, just charging 5-10 mins should let you reach your home charger. Anyway, for normal commute driving, most people rarely need to charge away from home. These stations are for longer trips, that most people do only a handful of times per month.
tra3 4y ago
Yeah but they are also claiming double the energy density. Very impressive if true.
- Andys 4y ago
  This isn't really a relevant metric though; current EVs have sufficient energy density, its the price and shortages that are causing issues.
  - KennyBlanken 4y ago
    Sufficient for certain markets and applications, but less weight and volume is always better. Less energy to accelerate, and smaller motors, lower powered drive electronics, and less demand on the battery (and the less current you draw from a battery, the lower the internal resistance losses, so weight really does matter.) It's better for roads, for one; heavier vehicles, with higher ground pressure, chew up roads faster. More weight means longer stopping distances and less handling capability for the same amount of tire (and you can't just slap bigger, stickier tires on. Efficiency plummets) so this relates to safety. And mass mattes in a crash, too. Drivers are stunningly good at crashing into all manner of stationary objects. I suspect as EVs get more popular we're going to see much more serious car vs building crashes, for example. The market for an EV eighteen wheeler explodes once you surpass the range a driver can legally drive in one day (you need more because otherwise there's a huge efficiency loss if the driver has to stop early in order to get a charge before running out of range, even if he's got the time logbook-wise. Ideally he's charging the rig while sleeping, though.) Work trucks like the Sierra HD or F250/F350/F450's, etc. can't yet be replaced because giving them the equivalent battery capacity would result in a truck with a fraction of its normal cargo and towing capacity. The livery industry can't really use EVs because charging stations are too far apart and too unreliable and too unavailable; while the range might be relatively close to a typical towncar's for a single tank of gas, obviously a towncar can be refilled in under 5 minutes from a fuel source almost anywhere along where it needs to go, with little wait for a free pump. Performance car segment - right now EVs are only seen in GT class cars and sedans. Lots of people like lightweight, responsive vehicles (Miata, BR-Z, "hot hatches", etc) and you can't do that with current battery tech. In vehicles made on platforms not fully committed to an EV powertrain, the battery ends up eating up passenger compartment space, cargo space, or ground clearance. Handling is more stable due to lower Cg, but less capable due to a pretty massive increase in weight. So: minivans, cargo vans, passenger cars...
clouddrover 4y ago
The Hyundai Ioniq 5 charges 10 to 80% in 18 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCqcqy29ZCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCqcqy29ZCc The Porsche Taycan can do 0 to 80% in 21 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrkAeTWDed4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrkAeTWDed4 A charging comparison between the Hyundai Ioniq 5, Audi e-tron GT (same platform as the Taycan), Audi e-tron 55, and a Tesla Model 3 Long Range: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxcukAhIAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxcukAhIAU
- natch 4y ago
  Those non-Tesla speed numbers are only at certain rare chargers. Remember Volkswagen Group hacking their own emissions tests? Reminds me of that. Good luck traveling and finding those speeds. It’s more like “oh look we have an existence proof of a handful of fast chargers but none where you are going…” well, OK. I’d rather have a well built out network.
  - Youden 4y ago
    I thought it was odd that you claimed those chargers are rare, turns out they are - in the US. According to [0], there are only a few 350kW chargers in the US, mostly in the Northeast. If you look at the same map in Europe, they're pretty common on long-distance travel routes. I wonder why this is? Is it related to US electrical infrastructure? I know in much of Europe it's common to have 3-phase electricity at home, for example. [0]: https://chargemap.com/map https://chargemap.com/map (click "Search", set minimum power to 350kW and select all plugs)
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      > I wonder why this is? It's because Chargemap's US map isn't very good. Try Plugshare (https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.plugshare.com/) or A Better Route Planner (https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://abetterrouteplanner.com/) or the maps from some of the providers themselves like Electrify America (https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/ https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/).
tomc1985 4y ago
Can it do this consistently without destroying the lifetime of the battery?
- kurthr 4y ago
  Yes, it can easily do this hundreds of times with minimal loss of capacity (e.g. 5%) so long as temperature is well controlled, but depth of discharge is not really 0% (fully discharged) and it's not really 80% (fully charged). They're made of of many hundreds of cells at different charge points, but likely 10-20% is as discharged as you're likely to get (without leaving the vehicle sitting for weeks on end) and 80% is as charged as you'll get. They have traded power density for lifetime and "charging rate".
  - tomc1985 4y ago
    > so long as temperature is well controlled There are a lot (vast majority?) of climates for which this would be really hard to do.
  - ohgodplsno 4y ago
    Hundreds of times for an appliance like a car that should last 20+ years is absolutely dreadful. Plenty of people go through a gas of tank a week. A single year is 52 full charges. 5 years already puts it well above 250 charges.
    - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
      You wouldn't be exclusively charging at those speeds, though.
      - tomc1985 4y ago
        Why not? I don't have an EV but in the US I've heard of people outfitting their homes with 240V sockets for higher-speed charging
        4y ago
tooltalk 4y ago
Hyundai/Kia Ioniq 5/EV6 can do 10%-80% in 18 mins now (with sustained peak charging 235kw between 10%-45%). I guess this is a small step forward, but certainly not a breakthrough.
- Youden 4y ago
  FWIW I own an EV6 and found the more nuanced analysis of its charging at [0] to be much more useful to me than the headline numbers. [0]: https://insideevs.com/news/537223/kia-ev6-prototype-fast-charging/ https://insideevs.com/news/537223/kia-ev6-prototype-fast-cha...
  - brandmeyer 4y ago
    "That which the large print giveth, the fine print taketh away." In this case however, the charging time details haven't altered my user experience in any way. Real-world charging stops really are in the 12-15 minute range for us.
    - Youden 4y ago
      Absolutely. I didn't mean to say "the charging is actually bad", just that I found it more nuanced than the headline number. I really like the colourful chart they have showing different charging speeds between different charge points. Thanks to that I think I'll probably try to charge 20-80% most of the time. I'm used to thinking about it like a phone, which is always charged to 100%, but I think with the car I'd rather keep it to 60% or so for day to day driving around town and only take it to 80% or 100% for longer trips. I'm going to try doing these measurements for my own car though, since the article was based on a prototype.
KennyBlanken 4y ago
For comparison, a Hyundai Ioniq 5 (or Kia EV6) charges from 10% to 80% in eighteen minutes on an 800v capable charger. Other 800v cars are similarly fast: Audi e-Tron, Porsche Taycan, Lucid. Polestar has announced they're going 800v in 2024. GM's Ultium platform already uses 800v (currently just the Hummer, but expect them to rapidly release more truck and SUV models based on Ultium.) Tesla has been snoozing for 3+ years on charging tech, and now their 400v architecture is inferior to what Hyundai, Kia, and GM offer. General Motors offers better charging tech than Tesla. The world's largest automakers are (successfully) gunning for Tesla. Not a good time for Musk to be distracted, fucking around with a social media company...
- grahamludwinski 4y ago
  Hyundai and Kia max out around 230kw, Taycan maxes out around 270kw but can't sustain it for very long, but Lucid is actually able to hit 300kw. Tesla is maxed out at 250kw for all models (3,Y,S,X) but they are working on increasing charging speeds on their V3 superchargers later this year: rumored to be 325kw. So I would say they are very much competitive with the rest of the industry and their better drive-train efficiency means you still get more added range per minute than all other EVs (except Lucid)
- 2rsf 4y ago
  The only problem, at least here in Sweden, is the lack of fast chargers and the quality of those that exist. Most places have cheap to free 20KW chargers, 50KW are easy to find but 120KW and up requires you to travel a few kilometers or more and possibly stand in a queue. Add to that the fact that those optimistic numbers are in perfect conditions, a preheated battery and the stars aligning perfectly in the sky that day- I rarely get even close to the advertised numbers.
tempestn 4y ago
Time to charge to 80% is less important than time to charge to X kWh though. Given the storage to weight ratio of this battery is supposed to be much higher, even if it took the same time to charge to 80%, it would take less time to charge to a given range.

by mrb 4y ago

petesergeant 4y ago

Very curious about how much difference that 15m takes, and presumably there are at least some studies. A 15m charge to use the restroom, check Instagram, buy a coffee feels very doable in a way that 30m feels like a drag, and more than twice the effort.

throwawayboise 4y ago
15 minutes still sounds like a very long time to me, compared to fueling a gasoline vehicle (I rarely use the restroom, check Instagram, or buy a coffee, or do anything else when I do this). I'm typically back on the road in under 5 minutes.
- theshrike79 4y ago
  15mins of charging every 400-500km for a 80% reduction in travel costs seems fair to me. 10€/100km with diesel/gasoline and 2€/200km for electric is a complete no-brainer.
- cevn 4y ago
  You also are forced to go to the gas station regardless of whether you go on road trips, so it's probably a wash. Can't remember the last time I went to one.
- mrb 4y ago
  Think about it this way: with a gas vehicle you wait 5 minutes to refuel maybe once a week, so that's 4+ hours wasted per year. But with an electric vehicle that charges primarily at home you would recharge outside home maybe once every 2 months, so at 15 minutes per charge that's only 1.5 hours wasted per year. 4 hours vs 1.5 hours.
- franciscop 4y ago
  True, but 15 min still feels into the "small break, mild inconvenience" vs 30 min that feels like a real full stop and rest for the car to charge. Potentially you could also just stop for 5 or 10 mins for a partial charge? 15 mins gets you to 80%, but arguably 5-10 mins might give you enough juice to very comfortably get where you need to go. I know when I forget to charge my phone before heading out, those 5-10 min charge I squeeze before heading out might mean the difference between having battery at the end of the day, or not.
  - natch 4y ago
    >Potentially you could also just stop for 5 or 10 mins for a partial charge? Exactly, that’s the trick! Although I still meet people who don’t get this and needlessly keep their charge topped up while traveling, which is a lot slower.
- petesergeant 4y ago
  Sure, and I'd argue that 15m can seem like more than 3x longer than 5m does for just this reason. I don't think the minutes and perceived convenience scale linearly
- exitb 4y ago
  When you primarily charge at home, I'd imagine the need to charge somewhere else most likely to happen after a couple hours of driving, in which case a 15 minute break sounds like a good idea anyway.
  - brandmeyer 4y ago
    We did a road trip like this over spring break. Our last day included 700 miles of driving. Drive for 1.5-2 hours, charge for 12-15 minutes, driver swap, and go. It was easily the best road trip experience of my life. Looking back at the stupid exhausted crap I put myself through in my younger days I can only shake my head.
  - calewis 4y ago
    After 4 years of EV ownership this is exactly how it works for me and my friends, in the UK at least.
    - gambiting 4y ago
      Same here, also UK. Yes stops at public charging stations are longer than stops at petrol stations, but then I pretty much never "fill up" outside of home. So I have already saved hours and hours that would have been spent on filling up a normal petrol car - if I now have to go and wait 30 minutes at a rapid charger, that's still an overall massive saving compared to an ICE.
- natch 4y ago
  You sound single. And oh so proud of how you have mastered pumping gas. On a trip from San Jose to LA we stop once to charge for 10 minutes, arriving with plenty of charge to spare. I’m not too worried about the “extra” five minutes, which we can make good use of.
nightski 4y ago
Agreed but imho it's not just about how long it is for one person. If a significant amount of people start needing to charge we are going to need more throughput at charging stations.
- robocat 4y ago
  Long congestion delays could occur trying to charge on long trips during holidays. Daily driving is less of a problem since most people can charge at home. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfUJCWRFjig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfUJCWRFjig
  - afarrell 4y ago
    Could this be a market opportunity for a restaurant chain like Sonic or Fuddruckers?
    - theshrike79 4y ago
      In Finland McDonalds has been installing 350kW chargers at their locations for a few years now. It's pretty much the perfect location, the car usually charges faster than you can wolf down your Big Mac and fries. The big super market chains are the other big player, they're taking customers from (overpriced) gas stations. It's usually a 5-10 minute detour to get to the local mega-mart and they have cafes and restaurants in there anyway - without the gas station markup.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  Tesla V3 stations are not "oversubscribed" like v2 stations, but they are hamstrung by a max grid connection of 350kW. Once the charging station's own battery is depleted - if all four stalls are in use, they will each deliver 87kW. That is laughably bad.
trashtester 4y ago
These cars have ranges around 400 miles / 600 km, and EV owners normally charge them at home regularly. Cold weather or non-economical driving may reduce that a bit, but you are unlikely to need to stop to charge in any given day before driving 200-300 miles (300-450km). If you plan to go another 200+ miles, a 30 minute break may be welcome at that point. Or if you're caught just 50 miles or so from home, just charging 5-10 mins should let you reach your home charger. Anyway, for normal commute driving, most people rarely need to charge away from home. These stations are for longer trips, that most people do only a handful of times per month.

tra3 4y ago

Yeah but they are also claiming double the energy density. Very impressive if true.

Andys 4y ago
This isn't really a relevant metric though; current EVs have sufficient energy density, its the price and shortages that are causing issues.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  Sufficient for certain markets and applications, but less weight and volume is always better. Less energy to accelerate, and smaller motors, lower powered drive electronics, and less demand on the battery (and the less current you draw from a battery, the lower the internal resistance losses, so weight really does matter.) It's better for roads, for one; heavier vehicles, with higher ground pressure, chew up roads faster. More weight means longer stopping distances and less handling capability for the same amount of tire (and you can't just slap bigger, stickier tires on. Efficiency plummets) so this relates to safety. And mass mattes in a crash, too. Drivers are stunningly good at crashing into all manner of stationary objects. I suspect as EVs get more popular we're going to see much more serious car vs building crashes, for example. The market for an EV eighteen wheeler explodes once you surpass the range a driver can legally drive in one day (you need more because otherwise there's a huge efficiency loss if the driver has to stop early in order to get a charge before running out of range, even if he's got the time logbook-wise. Ideally he's charging the rig while sleeping, though.) Work trucks like the Sierra HD or F250/F350/F450's, etc. can't yet be replaced because giving them the equivalent battery capacity would result in a truck with a fraction of its normal cargo and towing capacity. The livery industry can't really use EVs because charging stations are too far apart and too unreliable and too unavailable; while the range might be relatively close to a typical towncar's for a single tank of gas, obviously a towncar can be refilled in under 5 minutes from a fuel source almost anywhere along where it needs to go, with little wait for a free pump. Performance car segment - right now EVs are only seen in GT class cars and sedans. Lots of people like lightweight, responsive vehicles (Miata, BR-Z, "hot hatches", etc) and you can't do that with current battery tech. In vehicles made on platforms not fully committed to an EV powertrain, the battery ends up eating up passenger compartment space, cargo space, or ground clearance. Handling is more stable due to lower Cg, but less capable due to a pretty massive increase in weight. So: minivans, cargo vans, passenger cars...

clouddrover 4y ago

The Hyundai Ioniq 5 charges 10 to 80% in 18 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCqcqy29ZCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCqcqy29ZCc The Porsche Taycan can do 0 to 80% in 21 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrkAeTWDed4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrkAeTWDed4 A charging comparison between the Hyundai Ioniq 5, Audi e-tron GT (same platform as the Taycan), Audi e-tron 55, and a Tesla Model 3 Long Range: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxcukAhIAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxcukAhIAU

natch 4y ago
Those non-Tesla speed numbers are only at certain rare chargers. Remember Volkswagen Group hacking their own emissions tests? Reminds me of that. Good luck traveling and finding those speeds. It’s more like “oh look we have an existence proof of a handful of fast chargers but none where you are going…” well, OK. I’d rather have a well built out network.
- Youden 4y ago
  I thought it was odd that you claimed those chargers are rare, turns out they are - in the US. According to [0], there are only a few 350kW chargers in the US, mostly in the Northeast. If you look at the same map in Europe, they're pretty common on long-distance travel routes. I wonder why this is? Is it related to US electrical infrastructure? I know in much of Europe it's common to have 3-phase electricity at home, for example. [0]: https://chargemap.com/map https://chargemap.com/map (click "Search", set minimum power to 350kW and select all plugs)
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    > I wonder why this is? It's because Chargemap's US map isn't very good. Try Plugshare (https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.plugshare.com/) or A Better Route Planner (https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://abetterrouteplanner.com/) or the maps from some of the providers themselves like Electrify America (https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/ https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/).

tomc1985 4y ago

Can it do this consistently without destroying the lifetime of the battery?

kurthr 4y ago
Yes, it can easily do this hundreds of times with minimal loss of capacity (e.g. 5%) so long as temperature is well controlled, but depth of discharge is not really 0% (fully discharged) and it's not really 80% (fully charged). They're made of of many hundreds of cells at different charge points, but likely 10-20% is as discharged as you're likely to get (without leaving the vehicle sitting for weeks on end) and 80% is as charged as you'll get. They have traded power density for lifetime and "charging rate".
- tomc1985 4y ago
  > so long as temperature is well controlled There are a lot (vast majority?) of climates for which this would be really hard to do.
- ohgodplsno 4y ago
  Hundreds of times for an appliance like a car that should last 20+ years is absolutely dreadful. Plenty of people go through a gas of tank a week. A single year is 52 full charges. 5 years already puts it well above 250 charges.
  - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
    You wouldn't be exclusively charging at those speeds, though.
    - tomc1985 4y ago
      Why not? I don't have an EV but in the US I've heard of people outfitting their homes with 240V sockets for higher-speed charging
      - 4y ago

tooltalk 4y ago

Hyundai/Kia Ioniq 5/EV6 can do 10%-80% in 18 mins now (with sustained peak charging 235kw between 10%-45%). I guess this is a small step forward, but certainly not a breakthrough.

Youden 4y ago
FWIW I own an EV6 and found the more nuanced analysis of its charging at [0] to be much more useful to me than the headline numbers. [0]: https://insideevs.com/news/537223/kia-ev6-prototype-fast-charging/ https://insideevs.com/news/537223/kia-ev6-prototype-fast-cha...
- brandmeyer 4y ago
  "That which the large print giveth, the fine print taketh away." In this case however, the charging time details haven't altered my user experience in any way. Real-world charging stops really are in the 12-15 minute range for us.
  - Youden 4y ago
    Absolutely. I didn't mean to say "the charging is actually bad", just that I found it more nuanced than the headline number. I really like the colourful chart they have showing different charging speeds between different charge points. Thanks to that I think I'll probably try to charge 20-80% most of the time. I'm used to thinking about it like a phone, which is always charged to 100%, but I think with the car I'd rather keep it to 60% or so for day to day driving around town and only take it to 80% or 100% for longer trips. I'm going to try doing these measurements for my own car though, since the article was based on a prototype.

KennyBlanken 4y ago

For comparison, a Hyundai Ioniq 5 (or Kia EV6) charges from 10% to 80% in eighteen minutes on an 800v capable charger. Other 800v cars are similarly fast: Audi e-Tron, Porsche Taycan, Lucid. Polestar has announced they're going 800v in 2024. GM's Ultium platform already uses 800v (currently just the Hummer, but expect them to rapidly release more truck and SUV models based on Ultium.) Tesla has been snoozing for 3+ years on charging tech, and now their 400v architecture is inferior to what Hyundai, Kia, and GM offer. General Motors offers better charging tech than Tesla. The world's largest automakers are (successfully) gunning for Tesla. Not a good time for Musk to be distracted, fucking around with a social media company...

grahamludwinski 4y ago
Hyundai and Kia max out around 230kw, Taycan maxes out around 270kw but can't sustain it for very long, but Lucid is actually able to hit 300kw. Tesla is maxed out at 250kw for all models (3,Y,S,X) but they are working on increasing charging speeds on their V3 superchargers later this year: rumored to be 325kw. So I would say they are very much competitive with the rest of the industry and their better drive-train efficiency means you still get more added range per minute than all other EVs (except Lucid)
2rsf 4y ago
The only problem, at least here in Sweden, is the lack of fast chargers and the quality of those that exist. Most places have cheap to free 20KW chargers, 50KW are easy to find but 120KW and up requires you to travel a few kilometers or more and possibly stand in a queue. Add to that the fact that those optimistic numbers are in perfect conditions, a preheated battery and the stars aligning perfectly in the sky that day- I rarely get even close to the advertised numbers.

tempestn 4y ago

Time to charge to 80% is less important than time to charge to X kWh though. Given the storage to weight ratio of this battery is supposed to be much higher, even if it took the same time to charge to 80%, it would take less time to charge to a given range.