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I think there was a small window around 2010 where people actually used the onboard maps/GPS/etc. But every single person I know with a fancy new car + nav syst

I think there was a small window around 2010 where people actually used the onboard maps/GPS/etc. But every single person I know with a fancy new car + nav system/etc just uses their phone tethered over bluetooth. So, none of that matters, in the end. All you need is a volume control, a push to talk to siri/etc button on your steering wheel and a decently placed audio pickup. Then the upgrade happens every couple years with a new phone.

bonestamp2 4y ago
> just uses their phone tethered over bluetooth Carplay/Android auto are great too (which require a physical connection or wifi). I love using GPS this way because some apps take advantage of both screens -- the the phone itself can show a list of the turn by turn directions while the large vehicle screen can show a large map and lane guidance.
nucleardog 4y ago
There’s a brief window after you purchase a new vehicle where the maps aren’t hopelessly out of date… and then what? When I went looking at how to update the maps in my car I had to dig so far I ended up in the basement in a locked room with a sign that said “beware the tiger” digging through the bottom drawer of a dusty filing cabinet. I’m fairly certain that nobody had ever purchased the updates before. And they were like $500. Alternatively, you don’t even need a new phone… just use Google/Apple/etc maps and they’re evergreen _and_ generally contain live information on road closures, traffic density, etc. So you get more functionality and updates with a phone for free. It’s no wonder people don’t want to use the built in nav. (Never mind that it doesn’t pause my podcasts when it starts talking over them…) I have nav in my car because it’s basically bundled with a bunch of other creature comforts I did want. The only use I’ve ever found for it was on long road trips where I’d like a rough idea how much further to go / etc, but don’t want to have my phone screen on for dozens of hours or have to be fiddling with my phone to get progress updates. Highways don’t change often so it’s been fairly competent at that.
- StillBored 4y ago
  I leave an ancient tomtom (which had lifetime map updates that stopped after ~10 years when they said the HW wasn't supported anymore) in the glove box of my truck when i'm traveling the back roads of the USA, where cellphone coverage doesn't exist and google doesn't know the difference between a fire road, and a rancher's driveway. Its self contained and more than once I've fired it up when google was non responsive or tried to route me through a farmer's pasture with a locked gate or through an unmaintained fire road. So self contained is definitely a strength, and I suspect that old tomtom will still be tossing out routes in 10-15 years when we all have 7G cell modems in our cars leaving all the 4G/5G ones disconnected as has been happening with the 2G ones from 10 years ago. But the other end of the problem here is that these systems simply aren't designed properly anymore. Hence the reliance on cell modems, updates, etc. 22 years ago the two primary Linux Architectures in use today didn't even exist (amd64 and aarch64). Will the linux of 2040 even run on anything we have available today? Will the reactjs of 2040 fit in the puny 8G of RAM (or whatever) a modern car/linux machine might ship with? I would say no, nothing seems to be turning the less efficient software boat, as we steadily head down into ever more layers of software abstraction using ever more inefficient technologies. Anyway, my point is that the phone upgrade is basically required to run the lastest google/apple maps because that is the treadmill we are on. If you stop upgrading eventually you get dropped. I tried booting an ipad2 a couple years back, and while it booted, it had stopped getting OS updates, and the first thing it did was basically wipe out pretty much every single app, or in some cases leave them there in various dysfunctional states. I might have been able to repurpose it as a ebook reader if I was willing to crack the DRM/etc on them and load them manually.. Other than that, paperweight. PS: Delorme Atlases are the real answer to shady GPS routing, I keep them in the glove box too :)

bonestamp2 4y ago

> just uses their phone tethered over bluetooth Carplay/Android auto are great too (which require a physical connection or wifi). I love using GPS this way because some apps take advantage of both screens -- the the phone itself can show a list of the turn by turn directions while the large vehicle screen can show a large map and lane guidance.

nucleardog 4y ago

There’s a brief window after you purchase a new vehicle where the maps aren’t hopelessly out of date… and then what? When I went looking at how to update the maps in my car I had to dig so far I ended up in the basement in a locked room with a sign that said “beware the tiger” digging through the bottom drawer of a dusty filing cabinet. I’m fairly certain that nobody had ever purchased the updates before. And they were like $500. Alternatively, you don’t even need a new phone… just use Google/Apple/etc maps and they’re evergreen _and_ generally contain live information on road closures, traffic density, etc. So you get more functionality and updates with a phone for free. It’s no wonder people don’t want to use the built in nav. (Never mind that it doesn’t pause my podcasts when it starts talking over them…) I have nav in my car because it’s basically bundled with a bunch of other creature comforts I did want. The only use I’ve ever found for it was on long road trips where I’d like a rough idea how much further to go / etc, but don’t want to have my phone screen on for dozens of hours or have to be fiddling with my phone to get progress updates. Highways don’t change often so it’s been fairly competent at that.

StillBored 4y ago
I leave an ancient tomtom (which had lifetime map updates that stopped after ~10 years when they said the HW wasn't supported anymore) in the glove box of my truck when i'm traveling the back roads of the USA, where cellphone coverage doesn't exist and google doesn't know the difference between a fire road, and a rancher's driveway. Its self contained and more than once I've fired it up when google was non responsive or tried to route me through a farmer's pasture with a locked gate or through an unmaintained fire road. So self contained is definitely a strength, and I suspect that old tomtom will still be tossing out routes in 10-15 years when we all have 7G cell modems in our cars leaving all the 4G/5G ones disconnected as has been happening with the 2G ones from 10 years ago. But the other end of the problem here is that these systems simply aren't designed properly anymore. Hence the reliance on cell modems, updates, etc. 22 years ago the two primary Linux Architectures in use today didn't even exist (amd64 and aarch64). Will the linux of 2040 even run on anything we have available today? Will the reactjs of 2040 fit in the puny 8G of RAM (or whatever) a modern car/linux machine might ship with? I would say no, nothing seems to be turning the less efficient software boat, as we steadily head down into ever more layers of software abstraction using ever more inefficient technologies. Anyway, my point is that the phone upgrade is basically required to run the lastest google/apple maps because that is the treadmill we are on. If you stop upgrading eventually you get dropped. I tried booting an ipad2 a couple years back, and while it booted, it had stopped getting OS updates, and the first thing it did was basically wipe out pretty much every single app, or in some cases leave them there in various dysfunctional states. I might have been able to repurpose it as a ebook reader if I was willing to crack the DRM/etc on them and load them manually.. Other than that, paperweight. PS: Delorme Atlases are the real answer to shady GPS routing, I keep them in the glove box too :)