4 ms·

I am sad about this set of facts about the ACLUs position. Longer than the ACLU has held its opinion, the Constitution and the writings of the Founders, both be

by xbar 4y ago

I am sad about this set of facts about the ACLUs position. Longer than the ACLU has held its opinion, the Constitution and the writings of the Founders, both before and after its ratification, ascribe all of the rights in the Bill of Rights to individuals, including the 2nd Amendment specifically. I have long been an ACLU member and donor. Despite my differences of opinion on some matters, I have been grateful that they have fought in the name of rights in a great many cases. I do wish they would take a broader view on their mandate on Civil Liberties, today and tomorrow.

boppo1 4y ago
>writings of the Founders... ascribe all of the rights in the Bill of Rights to individuals Can you point me in the direction of these writings?
- briHass 4y ago
  The Federalist Papers, particularly those of Hamilton and Madison. Notably #84: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._84 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._84 Ironically, Hamilton was both wrong and right here. He was right that by enumerating rights in the BoR that it has empowered the government to view those rights as the only ones that are untouchable (and not even that.) However, he was wrong that the COTUS would stand on its own to protect individual rights due to its strict limiting of the government's ability to infringe those natural rights -- which it very much has done.
- xbar 4y ago
  “The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” – Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788 Later in life, even: “The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824
woodruffw 4y ago
> Longer than the ACLU has held its opinion, the Constitution and the writings of the Founders, both before and after its ratification, ascribe all of the rights in the Bill of Rights to individuals, including the 2nd Amendment specifically. This isn't even remotely true. The 10th Amendment, for example, explicitly concerns the rights of the states and not the individuals within them. The phrase "well-regulated militia" should be a giveaway to you: individual human beings are singular, not plural, and the concept of a "well-regulated individual" doesn't make much sense either in the language of the framers. We've so profoundly distorted the original language as to effectively erase "militia" entirely[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
- agensaequivocum 4y ago
  No, if you read the antifederalist papers, you will find the text from which the bill of rights originated which more clearly show that it is an individual right. > 7. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and their own state, or the United States, or for the purpose of killing game; and no law shall be passed for disarming the people of any of them, unless for crimes committed, or real danger of public injury from individuals;... * The Address and Reasons of Dissent of the Minority of the Convention of Pennsylvania to their Constituents (December 18,1787) Both the first and forth amendments also use the wording "the people" to refer to an individual right. Moreover, the militia is and was intended to be every able bodied male. > The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. > (b) The classes of the militia are— > (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and > (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=%2Fprelim%40title10%2FsubtitleA%2Fpart1%2Fchapter12&edition=prelim https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=%2Fprelim%40title10...
  - 4y ago

by xbar 4y ago

boppo1 4y ago

>writings of the Founders... ascribe all of the rights in the Bill of Rights to individuals Can you point me in the direction of these writings?

briHass 4y ago
The Federalist Papers, particularly those of Hamilton and Madison. Notably #84: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._84 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._84 Ironically, Hamilton was both wrong and right here. He was right that by enumerating rights in the BoR that it has empowered the government to view those rights as the only ones that are untouchable (and not even that.) However, he was wrong that the COTUS would stand on its own to protect individual rights due to its strict limiting of the government's ability to infringe those natural rights -- which it very much has done.
xbar 4y ago
“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” – Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788 Later in life, even: “The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

woodruffw 4y ago

> Longer than the ACLU has held its opinion, the Constitution and the writings of the Founders, both before and after its ratification, ascribe all of the rights in the Bill of Rights to individuals, including the 2nd Amendment specifically. This isn't even remotely true. The 10th Amendment, for example, explicitly concerns the rights of the states and not the individuals within them. The phrase "well-regulated militia" should be a giveaway to you: individual human beings are singular, not plural, and the concept of a "well-regulated individual" doesn't make much sense either in the language of the framers. We've so profoundly distorted the original language as to effectively erase "militia" entirely[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

agensaequivocum 4y ago
No, if you read the antifederalist papers, you will find the text from which the bill of rights originated which more clearly show that it is an individual right. > 7. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and their own state, or the United States, or for the purpose of killing game; and no law shall be passed for disarming the people of any of them, unless for crimes committed, or real danger of public injury from individuals;... * The Address and Reasons of Dissent of the Minority of the Convention of Pennsylvania to their Constituents (December 18,1787) Both the first and forth amendments also use the wording "the people" to refer to an individual right. Moreover, the militia is and was intended to be every able bodied male. > The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. > (b) The classes of the militia are— > (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and > (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=%2Fprelim%40title10%2FsubtitleA%2Fpart1%2Fchapter12&edition=prelim https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=%2Fprelim%40title10...
- 4y ago