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The hover text on the XKCD mentions OpenStreetMaps but just checked openstreetmap.org and they still don't seem to have public transit directions. Is there some

The hover text on the XKCD mentions OpenStreetMaps but just checked openstreetmap.org and they still don't seem to have public transit directions. Is there something that prevents them from getting that information? They also didn't understand a text query like "address to address"

usrn 4y ago
I mean it does say "Open Street Map" not "Open Rail Map."
- MiddleEndian 4y ago
  You got me there lol
- not2b 4y ago
  But in many areas (not everywhere) it's very good for hiking trails, thanks to lots of volunteer contributors.
Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
OSM is ultimately a crowdsourced, volunteer-surveyed database. Timetables (which are essential for public transport routing) don't really jibe with that. You could certainly build a map client which integrated third-party timetable data from operators and transport authorities, probably using OpenTripPlanner as a backend. But openstreetmap.org is designed simply to reflect OpenStreetMap data, not any third-party data.
Aachen 4y ago
It's a weird balance where the OpenStreetMap.org website claims not to be meant for usability, but everything about it screams the opposite. A convenient search box, share button, all the stuff you'd expect, except then it doesn't work very well and it's even worse on mobile. Officially, it's a tech demo to showcase what you can do with the data. Unofficially, crazies like me use it daily but need to fall back to other websites for various purposes: - overpass-turbo.eu for data queries (showing all the tourism=viewpoint nodes in an area, or all the supermarkets, for example) - OsmAnd for simpler queries like looking for a nearby bench while on the move (note that this also works fully offline, the only data it ever needs is for map file updates or if you want stuff like satellite imagery) - OsmAnd for showing which of the fifteen bus stops across three areas my bus will actually be at. For example, this bus station has stop positions inside, outside, on the other side of the street with a traffic light to cross, around the corner... https://snipboard.io/DJUbVd.jpg https://snipboard.io/DJUbVd.jpg It's madness, I walked up and down the whole area twice (took a while, missed my connection) before discovering the stop position around the corner, shown on the left on this screenshot. Had I just used OSM, it would have been clear where to go. Most transport apps don't show this, they just tell you to go and find H13 somewhere. Link to the bus line object shown in screenshot, btw: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1514901 https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1514901 - map.meurisse.org for distance measurement - maps.openrouteservice.org for more complex routing, e.g. with waypoints or time estimation with a specific maximum speed - when driving somewhere unfamiliar or with a tight deadline, I'll fall back to google maps which is the only source of accurate traffic info that I know of (in NL there are loops in the road which are open data, but idk if anyone built a site around it, and with the public transport network I don't drive there often anyway) To your specific question, OsmAnd can actually do public transport routing effectively in various countries using the data in OSM which is absolutely mind blowing impressive to me. But at the same time, I'm not sure why they bothered because without time table info it's pretty useless.
- Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
  I think that's absolutely fair comment, but osm.org isn't deliberately hard-to-use - it's just that not a vast amount of effort has gone into the frontend. If you enjoy hacking on the codebase then contributions are very much welcome. It would be great to get some of the mobile CSS issues sorted, for example. The main site is Rails and JS, while Nominatim (the search backend) has bits of Python and PHP. Happy to give further pointers if you're interested.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Aachen 4y ago
    > osm.org isn't deliberately hard-to-use That's what I heard, though, or more specifically that it's not meant to replace google maps in the first place and is more of a data showcase than a proper product. Of course I could be wrong, would be interesting to know
    - Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
      It's not meant to replace Google Maps as an end-user product, indeed. But fixing the mobile UI doesn't mean trying to replace Google Maps, it just means fixing the mobile UI.
- monort 4y ago
  http://mapy.cz http://mapy.cz is based on OpenStreetMap and covers some of your use cases

usrn 4y ago

I mean it does say "Open Street Map" not "Open Rail Map."

MiddleEndian 4y ago
You got me there lol
not2b 4y ago
But in many areas (not everywhere) it's very good for hiking trails, thanks to lots of volunteer contributors.

Doctor_Fegg 4y ago

OSM is ultimately a crowdsourced, volunteer-surveyed database. Timetables (which are essential for public transport routing) don't really jibe with that. You could certainly build a map client which integrated third-party timetable data from operators and transport authorities, probably using OpenTripPlanner as a backend. But openstreetmap.org is designed simply to reflect OpenStreetMap data, not any third-party data.

Aachen 4y ago

It's a weird balance where the OpenStreetMap.org website claims not to be meant for usability, but everything about it screams the opposite. A convenient search box, share button, all the stuff you'd expect, except then it doesn't work very well and it's even worse on mobile. Officially, it's a tech demo to showcase what you can do with the data. Unofficially, crazies like me use it daily but need to fall back to other websites for various purposes: - overpass-turbo.eu for data queries (showing all the tourism=viewpoint nodes in an area, or all the supermarkets, for example) - OsmAnd for simpler queries like looking for a nearby bench while on the move (note that this also works fully offline, the only data it ever needs is for map file updates or if you want stuff like satellite imagery) - OsmAnd for showing which of the fifteen bus stops across three areas my bus will actually be at. For example, this bus station has stop positions inside, outside, on the other side of the street with a traffic light to cross, around the corner... https://snipboard.io/DJUbVd.jpg https://snipboard.io/DJUbVd.jpg It's madness, I walked up and down the whole area twice (took a while, missed my connection) before discovering the stop position around the corner, shown on the left on this screenshot. Had I just used OSM, it would have been clear where to go. Most transport apps don't show this, they just tell you to go and find H13 somewhere. Link to the bus line object shown in screenshot, btw: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1514901 https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1514901 - map.meurisse.org for distance measurement - maps.openrouteservice.org for more complex routing, e.g. with waypoints or time estimation with a specific maximum speed - when driving somewhere unfamiliar or with a tight deadline, I'll fall back to google maps which is the only source of accurate traffic info that I know of (in NL there are loops in the road which are open data, but idk if anyone built a site around it, and with the public transport network I don't drive there often anyway) To your specific question, OsmAnd can actually do public transport routing effectively in various countries using the data in OSM which is absolutely mind blowing impressive to me. But at the same time, I'm not sure why they bothered because without time table info it's pretty useless.

Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
I think that's absolutely fair comment, but osm.org isn't deliberately hard-to-use - it's just that not a vast amount of effort has gone into the frontend. If you enjoy hacking on the codebase then contributions are very much welcome. It would be great to get some of the mobile CSS issues sorted, for example. The main site is Rails and JS, while Nominatim (the search backend) has bits of Python and PHP. Happy to give further pointers if you're interested.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Aachen 4y ago
  > osm.org isn't deliberately hard-to-use That's what I heard, though, or more specifically that it's not meant to replace google maps in the first place and is more of a data showcase than a proper product. Of course I could be wrong, would be interesting to know
  - Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
    It's not meant to replace Google Maps as an end-user product, indeed. But fixing the mobile UI doesn't mean trying to replace Google Maps, it just means fixing the mobile UI.
monort 4y ago
http://mapy.cz http://mapy.cz is based on OpenStreetMap and covers some of your use cases