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Wow comments are heated in here. Going to put my oven gloves on to type this one. Check out these other articles: ACLU is split by internal debate over First

Wow comments are heated in here. Going to put my oven gloves on to type this one. Check out these other articles: ACLU is split by internal debate over First Amendment support for hate speech https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/aclu-is-split-by-internal-debate-over-first-amendment-support-for-hate-speech https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/aclu-is-split-by-int... Once a Bastion of Free Speech, the A.C.L.U. Faces an Identity Crisis https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html?smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html?... The Left Needs the A.C.L.U. to Keep Defending Awful Speech https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/07/opinion/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/07/opinion/aclu-free-speech.... The ACLU made the decision to change. You can agree with that or not; if you dont like it... dont give them your money. That isn't the biggest concern. The bigger concern is 'who the nazis are'. Google has an employee who wrote: “Today it is often 1 or 2 steps to nazis. If we understand that PragerU, Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro et al are nazis using the dog whistles you mention in step 1. I can receive these recommendations regardless of the content of what I’m looking at, and I have recorded thousands of internet users sharing the same experience..” Which spawned a hilarious article: https://babylonbee.com/news/notorious-nazi-leader-ben-shapiro-outed-as-jew/ https://babylonbee.com/news/notorious-nazi-leader-ben-shapir... The problem with the political polarization is that you attribute your political opponents as being 'the worst'. There's plenty of examples of right-wing folks calling people nazis. Elon Musk called Trudeau Hitler. So did lefties, Bill Maher, russel brand, and several others: https://globalnews.ca/news/8627659/elon-musk-justin-trudeau-hitler-tweet/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8627659/elon-musk-justin-trudeau-... It's not that the ACLU lost their way or for that matter all those people calling everyone nazis. It's that virtually all of north america has lost their way. We need to get back to talking to each other again.

native_samples 4y ago
In the Trudeau case the comparison is at least not 100% wrong, as is usually the case when the N-word crops up. Hitler famously engaged in forced medical experiments on people who were deemed disposable classes of society, and he brooked no dissent or resistance. Regardless of how you personally feel about the COVID vaccines they were and are based on experimental new medical technology, which was then forced on people against their will including on people who thought it might harm them. And as we saw, the protestors were then destroyed by a leader who gave so few shits that he didn't even bother to turn up and talk to them, and who then engaged in vengeful financial attacks on family members or anyone who tried to support the protestors. Obviously that doesn't make Trudeau literally Hitler, but the point of talking about WW2 is to try and learn lessons so it never repeats. If you're only allowed to notice similarities by the time there are no differences left at all, it's already far too late. That's why the comparisons are always so tricky and fraught with controversy. On one hand, comparing everything to the Nazis is a tired rhetorical trick designed to shut down thought. On the other hand, to ensure something like that never happens again, people have to be willing to say -wait. That looks bad. That looks like something the Nazis did. That shouldn't be happening and maybe the people who are making it happen are bad people, they should be stopped. But the bar for it has to be high.
- jandrese 4y ago
  > Regardless of how you personally feel about the COVID vaccines they were and are based on experimental new medical technology This is not technically true. They were based on research from 1984, which started development in 2005 and was more or less ready and waiting for an application by 2010. They were much less experimental than the Polio or Smallpox vaccines were when they were introduced.
  - native_samples 4y ago
    It is very obviously true. Reductio ad-absurdum arguments like that could be applied to argue no technology is ever experimental. COVID vaccines are the first mRNA based vaccines ever produced, they were produced in absolutely record-breaking time and rushed through trials under emergency authorization. That's pretty much the definition of experimental technology.
    - jandrese 4y ago
      The COVID vaccines are not the first mRNA vaccines. I'm not sure where you are getting your information. There are mRNA Ebola vaccines in use in Africa. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-v...
      - native_samples 4y ago
        By "in use" you mean never progressed beyond the trial stage? Your article literally says in the opening paragraph, "why did it take until the global COVID-19 pandemic of 2020 for the first mRNA vaccine to be brought to market?" The COVID vaccines are so poorly understood that the manufacturers claimed 95% efficacy against infection, a claim which evaporated within months as that number dropped through the floor. They have never even tried to explain why their trial results were so badly wrong, meaning they don't understand their own products. A product so new even its own makers can't explain its behavior is at best experimental, and that's being generous in the extreme. A more accurate assessment would be that COVID vaccination was a mandatory medical experiment forced on vast sections of humanity often against people's will, in which the people doing the forcing then turned a blind eye to any negative effects.

native_samples 4y ago

In the Trudeau case the comparison is at least not 100% wrong, as is usually the case when the N-word crops up. Hitler famously engaged in forced medical experiments on people who were deemed disposable classes of society, and he brooked no dissent or resistance. Regardless of how you personally feel about the COVID vaccines they were and are based on experimental new medical technology, which was then forced on people against their will including on people who thought it might harm them. And as we saw, the protestors were then destroyed by a leader who gave so few shits that he didn't even bother to turn up and talk to them, and who then engaged in vengeful financial attacks on family members or anyone who tried to support the protestors. Obviously that doesn't make Trudeau literally Hitler, but the point of talking about WW2 is to try and learn lessons so it never repeats. If you're only allowed to notice similarities by the time there are no differences left at all, it's already far too late. That's why the comparisons are always so tricky and fraught with controversy. On one hand, comparing everything to the Nazis is a tired rhetorical trick designed to shut down thought. On the other hand, to ensure something like that never happens again, people have to be willing to say -wait. That looks bad. That looks like something the Nazis did. That shouldn't be happening and maybe the people who are making it happen are bad people, they should be stopped. But the bar for it has to be high.

jandrese 4y ago
> Regardless of how you personally feel about the COVID vaccines they were and are based on experimental new medical technology This is not technically true. They were based on research from 1984, which started development in 2005 and was more or less ready and waiting for an application by 2010. They were much less experimental than the Polio or Smallpox vaccines were when they were introduced.
- native_samples 4y ago
  It is very obviously true. Reductio ad-absurdum arguments like that could be applied to argue no technology is ever experimental. COVID vaccines are the first mRNA based vaccines ever produced, they were produced in absolutely record-breaking time and rushed through trials under emergency authorization. That's pretty much the definition of experimental technology.
  - jandrese 4y ago
    The COVID vaccines are not the first mRNA vaccines. I'm not sure where you are getting your information. There are mRNA Ebola vaccines in use in Africa. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-v...
    - native_samples 4y ago
      By "in use" you mean never progressed beyond the trial stage? Your article literally says in the opening paragraph, "why did it take until the global COVID-19 pandemic of 2020 for the first mRNA vaccine to be brought to market?" The COVID vaccines are so poorly understood that the manufacturers claimed 95% efficacy against infection, a claim which evaporated within months as that number dropped through the floor. They have never even tried to explain why their trial results were so badly wrong, meaning they don't understand their own products. A product so new even its own makers can't explain its behavior is at best experimental, and that's being generous in the extreme. A more accurate assessment would be that COVID vaccination was a mandatory medical experiment forced on vast sections of humanity often against people's will, in which the people doing the forcing then turned a blind eye to any negative effects.