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I'm just tired, to be honest. Even if we prevent this exact law (proposal), a few years down the line there probably will be another attempt. And again, and aga

I'm just tired, to be honest. Even if we prevent this exact law (proposal), a few years down the line there probably will be another attempt. And again, and again. Just like it happend with the mandatory data retention laws for ISPs. I really try to stay optimistic on this topic, but it's really hard. :/

orestarod 4y ago
Life is struggle, and I do not mean that in a pessimist way. If someone wants to take something from you, you just have to resist. Over and over and over, forever. Your life is meant to end anyway, no reason to give up sooner than that. It is of course logical to not have the energy and time to do everything and be everywhere. But whatever you do you keep moving.
fuckcensorship 4y ago
I have come to accept that the only long-term solution to digital privacy must be in the form of technology. No amount of vigilance and democracy will be able to keep the wolves away forever.
- alwayslikethis 4y ago
  It has not really been a technological problem for a long time. End to end encryption is mature technology. Human institutions require humans to function, and humans are easily swayed based on circumstances in a way that make them willing to simply hand over their rights.
  - npteljes 4y ago
    And it's not just the humans that can easily be swayed, their hardware and software too. The mathematically perfect and formally verified messaging software is usually sandwiched between a bazillion layers of questionable technology.
JasonFruit 4y ago
It's kind of like when a website begs for permission to use your location over and over even though you say no every time, until you screw up and say yes — and then you never hear about it again. These ideas arise over and over until one makes it through, and then we have lost that bit of liberty for good.
- media-trivial 4y ago
  Which browser are you using? Chrome doesn't ask again if you say no.
  - JasonFruit 4y ago
    I may honestly be misremembering, because I use Brave, whose behavior usually follows Chrome. At any rate, it's typical of the "Can we? You sure? You sure? You sure? OK, thanks!" anti-pattern we all hate.
  - School-Cotton 4y ago
    That’s why sites ask you first with their own dialog, and only if you say yes do they pop up the browser dialog.
native_samples 4y ago
There's a fix though - pull power back to the local level. These sorts of initiatives crop up when politicians feel too safe or remote from voters (who generally always have other priorities, often the economy or violent crime). So it's not any real surprise that this stuff is so often emerging at the EU level. The Commission doesn't have to care what voters think - it is in many ways a textbook dictatorship complete with a not-really Parliament - and so they focus on whatever ideas are trendy amongst the eurocrat set. Those people aren't much like the typical European. They're obsessed with certain ideas and ignore others completely. Information control is high up their priority lists, as are any issues that can be exploited to levy giant fines on American companies. They especially love those because the money goes straight into EU coffers the moment the decision is made by the Commissioners, without having to actually win any court cases and so it can be used to enhance their own power without having to get member states to agree to budget increases. Hence why there's a constant flood of internet related laws despite public dis-interest in the issue: https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2553 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2553 "Europeans thought that the most important issues facing the EU at the moment of the survey were the environment and climate change (26%), rising prices, inflation, cost of living (24%) and immigration (22%). 41% of respondents mentioned prices, inflation, cost of living as one of the most important issues facing their country, before health (32%) and the economic situation (19%)." Other than the recent climb in the rankings for climate change, the results always look like that. People care about the basics - their personal wealth, health and who's in their local community.
raxxorraxor 4y ago
The EU is used to introduce laws that aren't supported on a national level. The parliament doesn't really help as an organ for control since it is dependent as an institution. I more and more believe that the EU is fundamentally defunct and instances like this and the ISP spying is further evidence. It is just making everyone poorer with its monetary policies and the civil liberties it fights for are not much more than smokescreens.

orestarod 4y ago

Life is struggle, and I do not mean that in a pessimist way. If someone wants to take something from you, you just have to resist. Over and over and over, forever. Your life is meant to end anyway, no reason to give up sooner than that. It is of course logical to not have the energy and time to do everything and be everywhere. But whatever you do you keep moving.

fuckcensorship 4y ago

I have come to accept that the only long-term solution to digital privacy must be in the form of technology. No amount of vigilance and democracy will be able to keep the wolves away forever.

alwayslikethis 4y ago
It has not really been a technological problem for a long time. End to end encryption is mature technology. Human institutions require humans to function, and humans are easily swayed based on circumstances in a way that make them willing to simply hand over their rights.
- npteljes 4y ago
  And it's not just the humans that can easily be swayed, their hardware and software too. The mathematically perfect and formally verified messaging software is usually sandwiched between a bazillion layers of questionable technology.

JasonFruit 4y ago

It's kind of like when a website begs for permission to use your location over and over even though you say no every time, until you screw up and say yes — and then you never hear about it again. These ideas arise over and over until one makes it through, and then we have lost that bit of liberty for good.

media-trivial 4y ago
Which browser are you using? Chrome doesn't ask again if you say no.
- JasonFruit 4y ago
  I may honestly be misremembering, because I use Brave, whose behavior usually follows Chrome. At any rate, it's typical of the "Can we? You sure? You sure? You sure? OK, thanks!" anti-pattern we all hate.
- School-Cotton 4y ago
  That’s why sites ask you first with their own dialog, and only if you say yes do they pop up the browser dialog.

native_samples 4y ago

There's a fix though - pull power back to the local level. These sorts of initiatives crop up when politicians feel too safe or remote from voters (who generally always have other priorities, often the economy or violent crime). So it's not any real surprise that this stuff is so often emerging at the EU level. The Commission doesn't have to care what voters think - it is in many ways a textbook dictatorship complete with a not-really Parliament - and so they focus on whatever ideas are trendy amongst the eurocrat set. Those people aren't much like the typical European. They're obsessed with certain ideas and ignore others completely. Information control is high up their priority lists, as are any issues that can be exploited to levy giant fines on American companies. They especially love those because the money goes straight into EU coffers the moment the decision is made by the Commissioners, without having to actually win any court cases and so it can be used to enhance their own power without having to get member states to agree to budget increases. Hence why there's a constant flood of internet related laws despite public dis-interest in the issue: https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2553 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2553 "Europeans thought that the most important issues facing the EU at the moment of the survey were the environment and climate change (26%), rising prices, inflation, cost of living (24%) and immigration (22%). 41% of respondents mentioned prices, inflation, cost of living as one of the most important issues facing their country, before health (32%) and the economic situation (19%)." Other than the recent climb in the rankings for climate change, the results always look like that. People care about the basics - their personal wealth, health and who's in their local community.

raxxorraxor 4y ago

The EU is used to introduce laws that aren't supported on a national level. The parliament doesn't really help as an organ for control since it is dependent as an institution. I more and more believe that the EU is fundamentally defunct and instances like this and the ISP spying is further evidence. It is just making everyone poorer with its monetary policies and the civil liberties it fights for are not much more than smokescreens.