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> The key is that Mittelstand businesses are much less likely to fail I think you're getting at the crux of it here. The question is, how does one of these bus

> The key is that Mittelstand businesses are much less likely to fail I think you're getting at the crux of it here. The question is, how does one of these businesses "prove" to investors that they are less likely to fail? The failure rate for new business starts is famously high, whether that business is a tech startup chasing unicorn status or the corner deli. I think this will manifest itself in the due diligence phase, bringing back a bunch of things that tech founders have eschewed: detailed business plans, fundraising towards specific initiatives (as you point out in your post), and harsh measurement of progress towards those goals in board meetings with rapid consequences if goals are missed.

belval 4y ago
I don't have a definitive answer, but I'd venture that that's is something that can be addressed by your pitch, how high you are aiming, etc... Someone who wants to build niche business software vs "the next Facebook" is a good example. The first case has clients outlined, a good estimation of revenue, competition, etc... The second is more abstract but aims higher. Success (albeit highly unlikely) means billions in revenues.
- spaced-out 4y ago
  >The first case has clients outlined, a good estimation of revenue, competition, etc... The second is more abstract but aims higher. Success (albeit highly unlikely) means billions in revenues. It's a stereotype that startups don't have things like estimates of revenue, a clear business plan, clients, etc... A few crazy outliers get all the attention but the vast majority that get funding have a clear and convincing plan to get to profitability, and often clients or at least partner businesses (in other words clients that aren't paying yet, but are willing to spend their own resources working with you). The problem is that most new businesses fail, so if you're investing in new businesses the winners can't just make you a little money, they have to pay for multiple losers too. You also need to convince investors that it's worth putting their money into these risky businesses instead of say Microsoft/Apple/Google/Amazon/etc... which will not go out of businesses anytime soon and produce respectable returns.
  - justin 4y ago
    Even startups not aiming to be the next FAANG company have trouble estimating revenue, product development time, etc. It's just extremely hard to know all the unknowns when you are starting a new business, especially since it is likely that you are only an expert in one of the required fields (eng, product, marketing, sales) to bring your product to market and will have to learn everything else on the fly. Most business plans for startups are useless.
sgift 4y ago
> I think you're getting at the crux of it here. The question is, how does one of these businesses "prove" to investors that they are less likely to fail? By having a business plan. That's why banks (at least over here in Germany) ask for one when you ask for a loan. You present a plan, someone reads it, you talk it through, clarify a few things and if everyone is happy they give you a loan and you start (or grow) your business with it.
- webmaven 4y ago
  > You present a plan, someone reads it, you talk it through, clarify a few things and if everyone is happy they give you a loan and you start (or grow) your business with it. In the US, unless you can put up property like a house or land as collateral, or plan to use the loan to purchase recoverable assets like industrial equipment (I suppose a data center would qualify, but actual computer hardware depreciates faster than banks like), you won't get the loan, even if it's a local bank you're approaching. In theory a software business could use IP assets as collateral, but that usually doesn't apply to new software businesses. Getting to the point where a software business could get a business loan from a bank more or less requires bootstrapping.
- cseleborg 4y ago
  > they give you a loan Yes, they do, if you can provide a security for the loan. More often than not, the founder is the guarantor, which sucks for them if the business fails. This is moderately founder friendly, to say the least.
  - fxtentacle 4y ago
    In Germany, there's the option to have the government secure your loan towards the investment bank. For the founder, that means you get capital into your new company and only the company is legally liable for it, but not you personally.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

belval 4y ago

I don't have a definitive answer, but I'd venture that that's is something that can be addressed by your pitch, how high you are aiming, etc... Someone who wants to build niche business software vs "the next Facebook" is a good example. The first case has clients outlined, a good estimation of revenue, competition, etc... The second is more abstract but aims higher. Success (albeit highly unlikely) means billions in revenues.

spaced-out 4y ago
>The first case has clients outlined, a good estimation of revenue, competition, etc... The second is more abstract but aims higher. Success (albeit highly unlikely) means billions in revenues. It's a stereotype that startups don't have things like estimates of revenue, a clear business plan, clients, etc... A few crazy outliers get all the attention but the vast majority that get funding have a clear and convincing plan to get to profitability, and often clients or at least partner businesses (in other words clients that aren't paying yet, but are willing to spend their own resources working with you). The problem is that most new businesses fail, so if you're investing in new businesses the winners can't just make you a little money, they have to pay for multiple losers too. You also need to convince investors that it's worth putting their money into these risky businesses instead of say Microsoft/Apple/Google/Amazon/etc... which will not go out of businesses anytime soon and produce respectable returns.
- justin 4y ago
  Even startups not aiming to be the next FAANG company have trouble estimating revenue, product development time, etc. It's just extremely hard to know all the unknowns when you are starting a new business, especially since it is likely that you are only an expert in one of the required fields (eng, product, marketing, sales) to bring your product to market and will have to learn everything else on the fly. Most business plans for startups are useless.

sgift 4y ago

> I think you're getting at the crux of it here. The question is, how does one of these businesses "prove" to investors that they are less likely to fail? By having a business plan. That's why banks (at least over here in Germany) ask for one when you ask for a loan. You present a plan, someone reads it, you talk it through, clarify a few things and if everyone is happy they give you a loan and you start (or grow) your business with it.

webmaven 4y ago
> You present a plan, someone reads it, you talk it through, clarify a few things and if everyone is happy they give you a loan and you start (or grow) your business with it. In the US, unless you can put up property like a house or land as collateral, or plan to use the loan to purchase recoverable assets like industrial equipment (I suppose a data center would qualify, but actual computer hardware depreciates faster than banks like), you won't get the loan, even if it's a local bank you're approaching. In theory a software business could use IP assets as collateral, but that usually doesn't apply to new software businesses. Getting to the point where a software business could get a business loan from a bank more or less requires bootstrapping.
cseleborg 4y ago
> they give you a loan Yes, they do, if you can provide a security for the loan. More often than not, the founder is the guarantor, which sucks for them if the business fails. This is moderately founder friendly, to say the least.
- fxtentacle 4y ago
  In Germany, there's the option to have the government secure your loan towards the investment bank. For the founder, that means you get capital into your new company and only the company is legally liable for it, but not you personally.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]