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It’s more about trust than finances. Face to face and remote work within the companies legal boundaries is the safer choice. Remote work with no legal leverage

by dnndev 4y ago

It’s more about trust than finances. Face to face and remote work within the companies legal boundaries is the safer choice. Remote work with no legal leverage is scary when you think about handing over company assets. But then again, many large companies have managers looking to climb the ladder so they outsource at all costs to make the budget look better- it’s a risky gamble and sometimes it just works. Most times this ends with years of waste in other areas of the company. Trust issues will limit the adoption of remote work.

joshstrange 4y ago
> But then again, many large companies have managers looking to climb the ladder so they outsource at all costs to make the budget look better- it’s a risky gamble and sometimes it just works. Most times this ends with years of waste in other areas of the company. This works in the short term, in the same way you could probably lay off 90% of your developers and keep thinks chugging along for a couple years (albeit with next to zero new development). These things take time to fully poison the host but the exec climbing the ladder doesn't care. They get the praise for cutting costs, they aren't responsible for the code/product, and they will jet off to some new company to ruin things before the shit hits the fan.
- dnndev 4y ago
  I partially agree. Some companies are so dysfunctional contractors are the only ones getting stuff done. Some IT departments are just so slow and have so much red tape (no incentive to change the status quo - or have their hands tied for other internal political reasons) that nothing gets done as long as paychecks are cashing. I feel like this is off the main thread but none the less a reason for outsourcing in some cases may turn into a net gain for the company.
  - joshstrange 4y ago
    These types of places absolutely exist but while outsourcing might see a net gain I think they'd see an even bigger gain by getting rid of the dead weight and hiring people who aren't so stale/set in their ways. As in this is a failing of management and not something that outsourcing really "fixes". It's been my experience that companies are not willing to make these choices. I'm not saying "Bob had a bad week, let's fire him" or "Tom is going through some personal stuff and his work has slacked, let him go" but rather repeated failures with attempts to rectify them with the employee that aren't fixed. The bar to let someone go is absurdly high at some places and kills motivation for people who are doing the work "Well, John isn't doing any work and the company don't seem to care, I guess I'll stop caring as well and just coast". At my last job I had a coworker who refused to pull their own weight. We had the same title and I (and others on the team) were producing 3x+ what they were (when this team member even did anything, 3*0 = 0). Repeated complaints to our manager fell on deaf ears even with irrefutable evidence of this team member doing practically nothing. Some weeks they would move a ticket between statuses and that was all they did, no comments, no commits, no PRs, no reviews, no testing, nothing. Some weeks there was literally 0 activity by them on any of the tools we used and they were always distracted/distant in meetings, hardly contributing at all. That wasn't the only reason I left that company but it was one of them.
alaricus 4y ago
Nothing beats "it's cheaper". What happened to blue collar jobs in the US is coming for white collar jobs. Even if you don't do it, your competitor will and drive you out of business.
- dnndev 4y ago
  That is a good point. If I understand you correctly, a situation where someone comes to the US (for example) with deep ties to another country and knows the legal boundaries of both lands. They then have less of a trust issue farming out work to that lower wage location. Yes, I can see that happening in some cases.

by dnndev 4y ago

joshstrange 4y ago

> But then again, many large companies have managers looking to climb the ladder so they outsource at all costs to make the budget look better- it’s a risky gamble and sometimes it just works. Most times this ends with years of waste in other areas of the company. This works in the short term, in the same way you could probably lay off 90% of your developers and keep thinks chugging along for a couple years (albeit with next to zero new development). These things take time to fully poison the host but the exec climbing the ladder doesn't care. They get the praise for cutting costs, they aren't responsible for the code/product, and they will jet off to some new company to ruin things before the shit hits the fan.

dnndev 4y ago
I partially agree. Some companies are so dysfunctional contractors are the only ones getting stuff done. Some IT departments are just so slow and have so much red tape (no incentive to change the status quo - or have their hands tied for other internal political reasons) that nothing gets done as long as paychecks are cashing. I feel like this is off the main thread but none the less a reason for outsourcing in some cases may turn into a net gain for the company.
- joshstrange 4y ago
  These types of places absolutely exist but while outsourcing might see a net gain I think they'd see an even bigger gain by getting rid of the dead weight and hiring people who aren't so stale/set in their ways. As in this is a failing of management and not something that outsourcing really "fixes". It's been my experience that companies are not willing to make these choices. I'm not saying "Bob had a bad week, let's fire him" or "Tom is going through some personal stuff and his work has slacked, let him go" but rather repeated failures with attempts to rectify them with the employee that aren't fixed. The bar to let someone go is absurdly high at some places and kills motivation for people who are doing the work "Well, John isn't doing any work and the company don't seem to care, I guess I'll stop caring as well and just coast". At my last job I had a coworker who refused to pull their own weight. We had the same title and I (and others on the team) were producing 3x+ what they were (when this team member even did anything, 3*0 = 0). Repeated complaints to our manager fell on deaf ears even with irrefutable evidence of this team member doing practically nothing. Some weeks they would move a ticket between statuses and that was all they did, no comments, no commits, no PRs, no reviews, no testing, nothing. Some weeks there was literally 0 activity by them on any of the tools we used and they were always distracted/distant in meetings, hardly contributing at all. That wasn't the only reason I left that company but it was one of them.

alaricus 4y ago

Nothing beats "it's cheaper". What happened to blue collar jobs in the US is coming for white collar jobs. Even if you don't do it, your competitor will and drive you out of business.

dnndev 4y ago
That is a good point. If I understand you correctly, a situation where someone comes to the US (for example) with deep ties to another country and knows the legal boundaries of both lands. They then have less of a trust issue farming out work to that lower wage location. Yes, I can see that happening in some cases.