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Actually yes I do. Feel very strongly that the tech work from home movement is shining a light on something they don’t want a light shined on. They should be

Actually yes I do. Feel very strongly that the tech work from home movement is shining a light on something they don’t want a light shined on. They should be vehemently making cases that teams need to be in offices together and that “face to face is best” to keep their jobs in their citadel.

commandlinefan 4y ago
If work (of any kind) can only be done face-to-face, why do companies have satellite offices? I've never worked for a company with more than a few hundred employees that didn't have offices in multiple states and co-workers who had never met in person, yet still conducted business just fine remotely.
scandox 4y ago
Absolutely. I am seeing this unfold right in front of me and I'm amazed how happy people are to cut their own throat. I guess it's just because a lot of people have only ever experienced being highly in demand.
TimPC 4y ago
Or maybe it’s enough to have people in the same time zone working the same hours and communicating using technology. There is a big difference between questions being answered right away and questions being answered overnight that one still has to consider for outsourcing.
- jghn 4y ago
  Right. Both sides of this debate have been disingenuous. The remote-or-bust crowd always seems to assume salaries would stay the same. Most, not all, but most software development jobs don't require specialty skills. If the job can truly be done anywhere, why would we assume the answer will be to pay SF salaries all around the world? The must-be-in-office crowd tends to ignore that most of the time remote work mostly is fine. Yes, everyone has an anecdote of this going horribly wrong. But they ignore that minimizing costs as first priority is not going to yield optimal results. And a lot of those horror stories involve bottom rate outsourcing operations. There exists a world in which outsourcing/remote covers most needs but pays less than we're used to in the US software industry. It's neither the penny on the dollar model of traditional outsourcing nor junior devs making 500K TC in theo there extreme.
  - bin_bash 4y ago
    Even the most highly paid juniors (L3) don’t make 250K let alone 500K.
    - jghn 4y ago
      Yes, it was hyperbole.

commandlinefan 4y ago

If work (of any kind) can only be done face-to-face, why do companies have satellite offices? I've never worked for a company with more than a few hundred employees that didn't have offices in multiple states and co-workers who had never met in person, yet still conducted business just fine remotely.

scandox 4y ago

Absolutely. I am seeing this unfold right in front of me and I'm amazed how happy people are to cut their own throat. I guess it's just because a lot of people have only ever experienced being highly in demand.

TimPC 4y ago

Or maybe it’s enough to have people in the same time zone working the same hours and communicating using technology. There is a big difference between questions being answered right away and questions being answered overnight that one still has to consider for outsourcing.

jghn 4y ago
Right. Both sides of this debate have been disingenuous. The remote-or-bust crowd always seems to assume salaries would stay the same. Most, not all, but most software development jobs don't require specialty skills. If the job can truly be done anywhere, why would we assume the answer will be to pay SF salaries all around the world? The must-be-in-office crowd tends to ignore that most of the time remote work mostly is fine. Yes, everyone has an anecdote of this going horribly wrong. But they ignore that minimizing costs as first priority is not going to yield optimal results. And a lot of those horror stories involve bottom rate outsourcing operations. There exists a world in which outsourcing/remote covers most needs but pays less than we're used to in the US software industry. It's neither the penny on the dollar model of traditional outsourcing nor junior devs making 500K TC in theo there extreme.
- bin_bash 4y ago
  Even the most highly paid juniors (L3) don’t make 250K let alone 500K.
  - jghn 4y ago
    Yes, it was hyperbole.