7 ms·

If we keep putting special-interest clauses in our tax codes like these 'business opportunity zones' without expecting everyone who is capable to come in and ex

If we keep putting special-interest clauses in our tax codes like these 'business opportunity zones' without expecting everyone who is capable to come in and exploit them to the maximum extent possible, that is really on us.

throwawaygh 4y ago
It adds insult to injury that a billionaire real estate mogul made EXACTLY this argument when selling his tax policy and business conduct (I’m just being a good businessman, and I’ll fix the rigged system by getting rid of loopholes!), then turned around and got rid of special deductions for normal folks and created a massive special interest handout for real estate moguls.
- moffkalast 4y ago
  To the surprise of absolutely nobody.
  - andrepd 4y ago
    Apparently to the surprise of many! Some people really are terminally gullible.
    - moffkalast 4y ago
      How can you tell if a rich/powerful person is lying? Rule of thumb: Their mouth is moving.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
        Rule of thumb: people don't get to be rich and powerful by being decent and honest.
        HWR_14 4y ago
        This particular example inherited his fathers business, which was valuable enough that a half-share was sufficient to move him onto the Forbes 400 list. Although his father also trained him not to be decent or honest.
- refurb 4y ago
  got rid of special deductions for normal folks I assume you're talking about the SALT deduction? The one that mostly benefits the highest income earners? Interesting how when people personally benefit from a tax break it's "entirely justified", but when someone else does it's a "massive special interest handout".
  - throwawaygh 4y ago
    A two earner household with a cop and a nurse benefited from SALT. The average beneficiary of opportunity zones is generationally wealthy. A pair of tech workers pulling down 7 figures a year are stupidly wealthy and still would probably not have enough capital to be the primary beneficiary of an opportunity fund. I’m not going to defend the salt deduction because I’m not a fan of it for the reasons you mention, but comparing SALT to opportunity zones is genuinely delusional. Pitting the lower middle class against the upper middle class over a modestly regressive tax break while folks who haven’t worked in three generations pay a 0% tax rate on the fruits of others’ labor.
    - refurb 4y ago
      Generationally wealthy seems like a statement that needs some data there. These investments can be as simple as opening a store. Youre putting up a straw-bogeyman that doesn’t actually exist.
      - throwawaygh 4y ago
        Citation sorely needed. What’s the name of that opportunity fund?
- lukas099 4y ago
  I hope you're not implying that my argument is wrong just because Donald Trump once said the same thing disingenuously.
gumby 4y ago
The intent is that people will show up and use them. The main intent is that they be things like machine shops and the like that supply jobs and a bit of spin of economic activity (workers go get lunch etc). Having people work in a coworking space may not be what they had in mind, but if those people go out to lunch in the zone, mission accomplished. You can argue if that works well or not but the tax advantage does not exist in a vacuum.
- throwawaygh 4y ago
  In many states OZs were selected as political handouts and were placed in areas where development was already planned. The characterization that they lifted up poor regions is pure horseshit.
andrepd 4y ago
Of course! However, that argument is a bit moot when you consider the overlap that exists between political power and economic power, and more crucially this: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE https://yewtu.be/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE

throwawaygh 4y ago

It adds insult to injury that a billionaire real estate mogul made EXACTLY this argument when selling his tax policy and business conduct (I’m just being a good businessman, and I’ll fix the rigged system by getting rid of loopholes!), then turned around and got rid of special deductions for normal folks and created a massive special interest handout for real estate moguls.

moffkalast 4y ago
To the surprise of absolutely nobody.
- andrepd 4y ago
  Apparently to the surprise of many! Some people really are terminally gullible.
  - moffkalast 4y ago
    How can you tell if a rich/powerful person is lying? Rule of thumb: Their mouth is moving.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
      Rule of thumb: people don't get to be rich and powerful by being decent and honest.
      - HWR_14 4y ago
        This particular example inherited his fathers business, which was valuable enough that a half-share was sufficient to move him onto the Forbes 400 list. Although his father also trained him not to be decent or honest.
refurb 4y ago
got rid of special deductions for normal folks I assume you're talking about the SALT deduction? The one that mostly benefits the highest income earners? Interesting how when people personally benefit from a tax break it's "entirely justified", but when someone else does it's a "massive special interest handout".
- throwawaygh 4y ago
  A two earner household with a cop and a nurse benefited from SALT. The average beneficiary of opportunity zones is generationally wealthy. A pair of tech workers pulling down 7 figures a year are stupidly wealthy and still would probably not have enough capital to be the primary beneficiary of an opportunity fund. I’m not going to defend the salt deduction because I’m not a fan of it for the reasons you mention, but comparing SALT to opportunity zones is genuinely delusional. Pitting the lower middle class against the upper middle class over a modestly regressive tax break while folks who haven’t worked in three generations pay a 0% tax rate on the fruits of others’ labor.
  - refurb 4y ago
    Generationally wealthy seems like a statement that needs some data there. These investments can be as simple as opening a store. Youre putting up a straw-bogeyman that doesn’t actually exist.
    - throwawaygh 4y ago
      Citation sorely needed. What’s the name of that opportunity fund?
lukas099 4y ago
I hope you're not implying that my argument is wrong just because Donald Trump once said the same thing disingenuously.

gumby 4y ago

The intent is that people will show up and use them. The main intent is that they be things like machine shops and the like that supply jobs and a bit of spin of economic activity (workers go get lunch etc). Having people work in a coworking space may not be what they had in mind, but if those people go out to lunch in the zone, mission accomplished. You can argue if that works well or not but the tax advantage does not exist in a vacuum.

throwawaygh 4y ago
In many states OZs were selected as political handouts and were placed in areas where development was already planned. The characterization that they lifted up poor regions is pure horseshit.

andrepd 4y ago

Of course! However, that argument is a bit moot when you consider the overlap that exists between political power and economic power, and more crucially this: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE https://yewtu.be/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE