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Is this because we don't feel out of breath by lack of blood oxygen, but by an excess of blood CO2? Also related to hyperventilating causing fainting because yo

by rocqua 4y ago

Is this because we don't feel out of breath by lack of blood oxygen, but by an excess of blood CO2? Also related to hyperventilating causing fainting because you scrub out CO2 and hence think you have plenty of oxygen, and the use of a paper-bag to re-circulate some of the CO2 to keep blood levels of CO2 high enough.

matsemann 4y ago
Yes. If you try to hold your breath, the pain you feel is from CO2 buildup, not because of a lack of oxygen. If you lie still, the oxygen would last for many many minutes, but most people will be in such a pain after a minute or two that the body refuse to keep holding the breath. Consequently, that's why hyperventilating is absolutely a no-go when freediving. It tricks your body, by not triggering the CO2 feeling. So then you can suddenly pass out without feeling you were close to running out of air.
- rocqua 4y ago
  Is, at the same time, hyperventilating an effective (but very dangerous) way for people to get better at freediving? It seems like it would help people get deeper, especially when they are no where near their limits. That also sounds like it would make things even more dangerous, because when you get better and do get near your limits, you don't notice.
  - matsemann 4y ago
    For most people, I think the increased heart-rate of doing the big breathing motions would nullify the theoretical gain. So it feels easier, but you can't really hold any longer, you just pass out unexpectedly. The best way to get better is to do "co2 tables", just slouch in your couch and do the intervals of breathing/holding, and learn to control your body. When actually diving, we never push our limits, compared to what we know we can handle on land. Like, I can hold my breath for 5 minutes, but would seldom be more than a minute underwater. Co2 tables are actually very meditative. After the first convulsions, if you manage to calm your body down, it's quite a weird headspace to be in for the next minutes.
t0mas88 4y ago
A dropping level of CO2 from hyper ventialtion also disturbs the acid-base balance in the blood which in itself can cause dizziness, impaired mental function and tingling fingers as if you have a lack of oxygen. At high altitude it's easy to mistake this for hypoxia (due to loss of pressure), because the feeling and visible symptoms can be very similar. The distinguishing symptom is seeing blue lips/fingers, that doesn't happen with hyperventilation. But if you've taken hypoxia that far you're in a lot of trouble. Recommended approach for flight crews is to not bother figuring out whether it's hypoxia or hyperventilation but instead for everyone to put on oxygen masks, verify each other's masks and focus on breathing normally. It will fix both issues and ensures that the rest of the crew is fine in case it was hypoxia.
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  "A dropping level of CO2 from hyper ventialtion also disturbs the acid-base balance in the blood which in itself can cause dizziness, impaired mental function and tingling fingers as if you have a lack of oxygen." Hyperventilation is also at the core of Holotropic Breathwork, which people deliberately do to get psychedelic effects: https://www.holotropicbreathworkla.com/how-to-do-holotropic-breathwork https://www.holotropicbreathworkla.com/how-to-do-holotropic-...

by rocqua 4y ago

matsemann 4y ago

Yes. If you try to hold your breath, the pain you feel is from CO2 buildup, not because of a lack of oxygen. If you lie still, the oxygen would last for many many minutes, but most people will be in such a pain after a minute or two that the body refuse to keep holding the breath. Consequently, that's why hyperventilating is absolutely a no-go when freediving. It tricks your body, by not triggering the CO2 feeling. So then you can suddenly pass out without feeling you were close to running out of air.

rocqua 4y ago
Is, at the same time, hyperventilating an effective (but very dangerous) way for people to get better at freediving? It seems like it would help people get deeper, especially when they are no where near their limits. That also sounds like it would make things even more dangerous, because when you get better and do get near your limits, you don't notice.
- matsemann 4y ago
  For most people, I think the increased heart-rate of doing the big breathing motions would nullify the theoretical gain. So it feels easier, but you can't really hold any longer, you just pass out unexpectedly. The best way to get better is to do "co2 tables", just slouch in your couch and do the intervals of breathing/holding, and learn to control your body. When actually diving, we never push our limits, compared to what we know we can handle on land. Like, I can hold my breath for 5 minutes, but would seldom be more than a minute underwater. Co2 tables are actually very meditative. After the first convulsions, if you manage to calm your body down, it's quite a weird headspace to be in for the next minutes.

t0mas88 4y ago

A dropping level of CO2 from hyper ventialtion also disturbs the acid-base balance in the blood which in itself can cause dizziness, impaired mental function and tingling fingers as if you have a lack of oxygen. At high altitude it's easy to mistake this for hypoxia (due to loss of pressure), because the feeling and visible symptoms can be very similar. The distinguishing symptom is seeing blue lips/fingers, that doesn't happen with hyperventilation. But if you've taken hypoxia that far you're in a lot of trouble. Recommended approach for flight crews is to not bother figuring out whether it's hypoxia or hyperventilation but instead for everyone to put on oxygen masks, verify each other's masks and focus on breathing normally. It will fix both issues and ensures that the rest of the crew is fine in case it was hypoxia.

pmoriarty 4y ago
"A dropping level of CO2 from hyper ventialtion also disturbs the acid-base balance in the blood which in itself can cause dizziness, impaired mental function and tingling fingers as if you have a lack of oxygen." Hyperventilation is also at the core of Holotropic Breathwork, which people deliberately do to get psychedelic effects: https://www.holotropicbreathworkla.com/how-to-do-holotropic-breathwork https://www.holotropicbreathworkla.com/how-to-do-holotropic-...