5 ms·

Seems like people with their own domains who use google apps should have been be the ideal lead users to seed google+. A missed opportunity.

nix 15y ago
The Google Apps case is harder because of the existence of a separate "domain administrator" role with some powers over the user account. Many people on Google Apps domains are employees using their work email for personal business. If you want to create durable identities around email addresses, these people are kind of a problem, because the obvious way to do things gives control of their digital identities to their employer's IT department.
cpeterso 15y ago
Why is that? Are those people more likely to be "taste makers", influencing and connecting other people? I think Google Apps users must wait for new features because of technical difficulties that Google would like to defer to a post-1.0 version.
- GiraffeNecktie 15y ago
  Yes. Absolutely. There are lots of early adopters like myself who jumped on Google Apps the moment they became available and were strong advocates for Apps and other Google offerings. Lately though it's like we've somehow become second class citizens in the googleverse.
  - dannyr 15y ago
    Do you think Google is deliberately excluding Google Apps users? I read somewhere that this is a technical limitation because Apps is on a different infrastructure.
    - tensor 15y ago
      I doubt it. This is somewhat speculation and somewhat observation, but Google seems to build produces with fairly independent teams. As the recent rant shows, this means that very often the projects don't have strong api's to interact with. However, what the rant did not touch on is how integrating things into a large infrastructure can slow down development. It's much easier to iterate on a product when you don't have to maintain stable APIs or meet the numerous requirements needed to tightly integrate into a larger system. My guess is that Google chooses the style of development it does precisely so that it can create and test products quickly and with independent teams. A downside to this is that is that they need to spend a lot of extra time when they finally do integrate a product into something like the Apps framework.
    - GiraffeNecktie 15y ago
      I certainly don't think it's "deliberate" in the sense that they would ever want to exclude Apps users, but I think it's deliberate in the sense that they saw fixing the Apps problem as a much lower priority, perhaps because they know there's a high degree of vendor lock-in for us (it's not like I'm going to move to a Microsoft offering). From their point of view it could be a totally rational business decision, given finite resources, but it's still shafting your most loyal customers.
Kylekramer 15y ago
Passionate and knowledgable users would be good for early users. However, betas and paying customers don't mix well. People seem to miss that Google Apps is really meant for enterprise, government and education. So, the driving factor behind decisions for Apps users isn't the hackers and power users who use it for their own domain, but people like NYU, the City of Des Moines and Virgin America. It makes perfect sense to open it up for them last. It is just there happens to be a large vocal group of people who use Google Apps for their own personal use.
- saurik 15y ago
  I would say this is actually the reason why it doesn't make any sense for Google Apps to support Google+. As you say, the core use case for Google Apps is for an enterprise, university, or some other kind of organization to give accounts to users that are managed on their behalf. In essence, all of the accounts are owned by the organization, not the user. Now, what happens when the organization revokes your account, because you graduate? The idea that that is possible is absurd. (In case anyone reading doesn't see what I mean yet, imagine if Facebook locked you out of your account when your University cancelled your e-mail address after graduation, instead of just letting you associate a new one; your Google Apps account isn't just an account associated with an address at a domain, it is an account that is equivalent to an address at a domain.)
  - xm1994 15y ago
    I have my own Apps account and was peeved at having to create another Google account for Google+, but now I'll continue to use a "personal" Google account for Plus. This way my Google+ will never be tied down to one organization (even if it happens to be my own at the moment). They really need to decouple a Google account from a person's email address(s).
    - icebraining 15y ago
      They really need to decouple a Google account from a person's email address(s). Exactly. In fact, one should be able to "attach" multiple email accounts to a single Profile.

nix 15y ago

The Google Apps case is harder because of the existence of a separate "domain administrator" role with some powers over the user account. Many people on Google Apps domains are employees using their work email for personal business. If you want to create durable identities around email addresses, these people are kind of a problem, because the obvious way to do things gives control of their digital identities to their employer's IT department.

cpeterso 15y ago

Why is that? Are those people more likely to be "taste makers", influencing and connecting other people? I think Google Apps users must wait for new features because of technical difficulties that Google would like to defer to a post-1.0 version.

GiraffeNecktie 15y ago
Yes. Absolutely. There are lots of early adopters like myself who jumped on Google Apps the moment they became available and were strong advocates for Apps and other Google offerings. Lately though it's like we've somehow become second class citizens in the googleverse.
- dannyr 15y ago
  Do you think Google is deliberately excluding Google Apps users? I read somewhere that this is a technical limitation because Apps is on a different infrastructure.
  - tensor 15y ago
    I doubt it. This is somewhat speculation and somewhat observation, but Google seems to build produces with fairly independent teams. As the recent rant shows, this means that very often the projects don't have strong api's to interact with. However, what the rant did not touch on is how integrating things into a large infrastructure can slow down development. It's much easier to iterate on a product when you don't have to maintain stable APIs or meet the numerous requirements needed to tightly integrate into a larger system. My guess is that Google chooses the style of development it does precisely so that it can create and test products quickly and with independent teams. A downside to this is that is that they need to spend a lot of extra time when they finally do integrate a product into something like the Apps framework.
  - GiraffeNecktie 15y ago
    I certainly don't think it's "deliberate" in the sense that they would ever want to exclude Apps users, but I think it's deliberate in the sense that they saw fixing the Apps problem as a much lower priority, perhaps because they know there's a high degree of vendor lock-in for us (it's not like I'm going to move to a Microsoft offering). From their point of view it could be a totally rational business decision, given finite resources, but it's still shafting your most loyal customers.

Kylekramer 15y ago

Passionate and knowledgable users would be good for early users. However, betas and paying customers don't mix well. People seem to miss that Google Apps is really meant for enterprise, government and education. So, the driving factor behind decisions for Apps users isn't the hackers and power users who use it for their own domain, but people like NYU, the City of Des Moines and Virgin America. It makes perfect sense to open it up for them last. It is just there happens to be a large vocal group of people who use Google Apps for their own personal use.

saurik 15y ago
I would say this is actually the reason why it doesn't make any sense for Google Apps to support Google+. As you say, the core use case for Google Apps is for an enterprise, university, or some other kind of organization to give accounts to users that are managed on their behalf. In essence, all of the accounts are owned by the organization, not the user. Now, what happens when the organization revokes your account, because you graduate? The idea that that is possible is absurd. (In case anyone reading doesn't see what I mean yet, imagine if Facebook locked you out of your account when your University cancelled your e-mail address after graduation, instead of just letting you associate a new one; your Google Apps account isn't just an account associated with an address at a domain, it is an account that is equivalent to an address at a domain.)
- xm1994 15y ago
  I have my own Apps account and was peeved at having to create another Google account for Google+, but now I'll continue to use a "personal" Google account for Plus. This way my Google+ will never be tied down to one organization (even if it happens to be my own at the moment). They really need to decouple a Google account from a person's email address(s).
  - icebraining 15y ago
    They really need to decouple a Google account from a person's email address(s). Exactly. In fact, one should be able to "attach" multiple email accounts to a single Profile.