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Most Americans have never experienced a system like that, and will fight tooth and nail against things they don't understand or have experienced. They are told

Most Americans have never experienced a system like that, and will fight tooth and nail against things they don't understand or have experienced. They are told by billionaires who run the media empires that universal healthcare is expensive, will ruin the country, will remove their ability to get appointments scheduled. Of course coming from any other country, this is ridiculous. But it goes to show you how out of touch many Americans are with how the rest of the world works.

OrvalWintermute 4y ago
>Most Americans have never experienced a system like that, and will fight tooth and nail against things they don't understand or have experienced. They are told by billionaires who run the media empires that universal healthcare is expensive, will ruin the country, will remove their ability to get appointments scheduled. My wife, a practicing physician, did fellowships in multiple countries like this. I asked her for her opinion given her experience with their systems, and our systems, and also being on the provider end. "excellent emergent care, comparable to better US hospitals" "horrible waiting periods for elective care, and non-emergent surgeries"
- jorblumesea 4y ago
  The US also has terrible waiting periods for elective care as well. I've talked to many physicians in the US (wife is MD) and you're booking way out anyways. So...universal healthcare has wait times of 7 months instead of 5 months. It's just weird how people argue for the US system as if it's superior but it really has the same problems as other countries with even more downsides. If we're supposed to be "good" at elective surgeries we're giving up a lot to be pretty mediocre.
  - OrvalWintermute 4y ago
    Many socialized systems have wait times of years, not months for elective, and non-emergent surgeries.
- astura 4y ago
  >"horrible waiting periods for elective care, and non-emergent surgeries" Same as in the US. Three months is the minimum. Hell, I couldn't even schedule a tooth cleaning with a new dentist less than six months out - I called close to 10 dentist offices.
  - OrvalWintermute 4y ago
    > Same as in the US. Three months is the minimum. big nope. Wife is booking emergent same day, and depending on the case length and type, 1-2 weeks for most cancer cases, up to a month for a complex deep inferior epigastric perforators flap breast reconstruction surgery which is a long surgery if bilateral; getting that much OR time is a challenge. They'll book for saturdays if they need. Cases that can be done in a surgery center are quick; major cases that require a hospital OR, and other physician clearances take longer to coordinate. The longest backlog (1 year) in the practice is actually a 99% cosmetic plastic surgeon who is an instagram famous Michelangelo of Brazilian Butt Lifts.
    - danaris 4y ago
      Way to deny people's lived experience. I can corroborate the GP's experience of having to book several months in advance for non-emergency care—the fastest medical booking I've had in the past several years is surgery for my cat, which was about three weeks.
      - OrvalWintermute 4y ago
        It sounds like we have different experiences due to the local/regional availability of physicians. Certain areas of the US, particularly many big cities have a plethora of physicians and active competition between them.
    - astura 4y ago
      Why are you telling me that my experience is somehow invalid?
      - 4y ago
native_samples 4y ago
"They are told by billionaires who run the media empires that universal healthcare is expensive, will ruin the country, will remove their ability to get appointments scheduled" The "billionaires" aren't lying to you. Look at the UK, a maximalist interpretation of universal government funded healthcare. Lockdowns destroyed the NHS. The waiting list for care (not even just elective care, any care) is now closing in on 10% of the entire population! https://dailysceptic.org/2022/04/15/lockdown-backlog-nhs-waiting-list-hits-new-high-of-6-2-million-as-stroke-and-heart-attack-victims-wait-over-an-hour-for-ambulance/ https://dailysceptic.org/2022/04/15/lockdown-backlog-nhs-wai... People are waiting hours for ambulances to turn up after heart attacks! People are dying inside ambulances sitting in queues to enter the hospital. My family has largely given up on seeing local general practitioners because so many have reduced hours during lockdowns and never brought them back, meaning they're working less with bigger demand due to backlogs. The system has indeed removed their ability to get appointments scheduled. These are third world conditions, or perhaps more accurately, second world conditions - nobody has to pay but there are severe shortages all the time, and what you get may or may not be of acceptable quality. The USA doesn't have these problems. Heck, most places that aren't fully government run don't have these problems. The problems are cutting through. My aunt, a lifetime public sector worker loyal to the NHS, was talking about getting private care last time we talked. It was a surprise but she said her experience was you just can't see doctors without it anymore. The net result is going to be a very expensive healthcare system for the UK - high taxes to pay for the NHS plus an ever larger shadow system of private healthcare on the side.

OrvalWintermute 4y ago

>Most Americans have never experienced a system like that, and will fight tooth and nail against things they don't understand or have experienced. They are told by billionaires who run the media empires that universal healthcare is expensive, will ruin the country, will remove their ability to get appointments scheduled. My wife, a practicing physician, did fellowships in multiple countries like this. I asked her for her opinion given her experience with their systems, and our systems, and also being on the provider end. "excellent emergent care, comparable to better US hospitals" "horrible waiting periods for elective care, and non-emergent surgeries"

jorblumesea 4y ago
The US also has terrible waiting periods for elective care as well. I've talked to many physicians in the US (wife is MD) and you're booking way out anyways. So...universal healthcare has wait times of 7 months instead of 5 months. It's just weird how people argue for the US system as if it's superior but it really has the same problems as other countries with even more downsides. If we're supposed to be "good" at elective surgeries we're giving up a lot to be pretty mediocre.
- OrvalWintermute 4y ago
  Many socialized systems have wait times of years, not months for elective, and non-emergent surgeries.
astura 4y ago
>"horrible waiting periods for elective care, and non-emergent surgeries" Same as in the US. Three months is the minimum. Hell, I couldn't even schedule a tooth cleaning with a new dentist less than six months out - I called close to 10 dentist offices.
- OrvalWintermute 4y ago
  > Same as in the US. Three months is the minimum. big nope. Wife is booking emergent same day, and depending on the case length and type, 1-2 weeks for most cancer cases, up to a month for a complex deep inferior epigastric perforators flap breast reconstruction surgery which is a long surgery if bilateral; getting that much OR time is a challenge. They'll book for saturdays if they need. Cases that can be done in a surgery center are quick; major cases that require a hospital OR, and other physician clearances take longer to coordinate. The longest backlog (1 year) in the practice is actually a 99% cosmetic plastic surgeon who is an instagram famous Michelangelo of Brazilian Butt Lifts.
  - danaris 4y ago
    Way to deny people's lived experience. I can corroborate the GP's experience of having to book several months in advance for non-emergency care—the fastest medical booking I've had in the past several years is surgery for my cat, which was about three weeks.
    - OrvalWintermute 4y ago
      It sounds like we have different experiences due to the local/regional availability of physicians. Certain areas of the US, particularly many big cities have a plethora of physicians and active competition between them.
  - astura 4y ago
    Why are you telling me that my experience is somehow invalid?
    - 4y ago

native_samples 4y ago

"They are told by billionaires who run the media empires that universal healthcare is expensive, will ruin the country, will remove their ability to get appointments scheduled" The "billionaires" aren't lying to you. Look at the UK, a maximalist interpretation of universal government funded healthcare. Lockdowns destroyed the NHS. The waiting list for care (not even just elective care, any care) is now closing in on 10% of the entire population! https://dailysceptic.org/2022/04/15/lockdown-backlog-nhs-waiting-list-hits-new-high-of-6-2-million-as-stroke-and-heart-attack-victims-wait-over-an-hour-for-ambulance/ https://dailysceptic.org/2022/04/15/lockdown-backlog-nhs-wai... People are waiting hours for ambulances to turn up after heart attacks! People are dying inside ambulances sitting in queues to enter the hospital. My family has largely given up on seeing local general practitioners because so many have reduced hours during lockdowns and never brought them back, meaning they're working less with bigger demand due to backlogs. The system has indeed removed their ability to get appointments scheduled. These are third world conditions, or perhaps more accurately, second world conditions - nobody has to pay but there are severe shortages all the time, and what you get may or may not be of acceptable quality. The USA doesn't have these problems. Heck, most places that aren't fully government run don't have these problems. The problems are cutting through. My aunt, a lifetime public sector worker loyal to the NHS, was talking about getting private care last time we talked. It was a surprise but she said her experience was you just can't see doctors without it anymore. The net result is going to be a very expensive healthcare system for the UK - high taxes to pay for the NHS plus an ever larger shadow system of private healthcare on the side.