5 ms·

Here's another fun example of patenting something impossible: compressing random data. [1] Amusingly, Jean-loup Gailly's [2] post about it begins with saying th

Here's another fun example of patenting something impossible: compressing random data. [1] Amusingly, Jean-loup Gailly's [2] post about it begins with saying that: "The US patent office no longer grants patents on perpetual motion machines..." [1]: http://gailly.net/05533051.html http://gailly.net/05533051.html [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-loup_Gailly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-loup_Gailly

thrtythreeforty 4y ago
Oh man that's a riot. Thanks for sharing. There are several classes of problem that really seem to bring out the patent crackpots, of which perpetual motion is the most classic. Apparently data compression is another. The one I've personally run into is "secure" or "trusted" embedded systems. I've been contacted by a lot of people who believe that they can make a perfectly secure and trustworthy secret storage system just by building it out of an embedded Linux system. When I try to explain how a secure element is basically exactly the opposite of a Linux box, the excuses and bluster prevent me from actually making any progress in explaining. There's a term for this: "Not even wrong." That is, so off base that "wrong" is generous! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong
- maweki 4y ago
  > There are several classes of problem that really seem to bring out the [...] crackpots You wouldn't believe how many people on reddit have proved the Collatz conjecture or found a polytime algorithm for 3-SAT... If a problem is hard enough and stated easily enough, it is crackpot-central.
  - thrtythreeforty 4y ago
    3-SAT is one of those where it really falls down fast, because you can just ask them for a solution for some arbitrary 3-SAT problem. By their own admission, they've found an algorithm!
    - maweki 4y ago
      A polytime algorithm, even an implementation of one, does not alone make a competitive SAT-solver for any of the ongoing SAT-competitions.
FreeFull 4y ago
I've compressed all the data I have down to a single bit, but now I can't figure out how to extract it back out.
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  is it a 1 or a 0?
  - kingcharles 4y ago
    It was a quantum algorithm. It's in a superposition between the two values. I won't know until I look at it.
  - FreeFull 4y ago
    The data is confidential, so I'm afraid I can't disclose that. Wouldn't want someone else to successfully decompress it.
cat_plus_plus 4y ago
Every PRNG is an excellent compression algorithm for particular kinds of random data. Actually every kind of unbounded size random data is generated by a device that doesn't contain all of the data at the start. These algorithms may not be generic, but a generic algorithm is not useful because you can always can just generate another random data set from scratch.
- johnday 4y ago
  Pseudorandomly generated data is not random data. There is no way to compress actually random information, by definition.
WalterBright 4y ago
Here's another popular but impossible item: the free lunch. Every economic proposal that promises a free lunch has a hidden cost, whether the proposer knows it's there or not. I remember once idly watching one of those "Get Rich Quick Through Real Estate Swindling" seminars on late night TV. Just for fun, I decided to work through the blizzard of transactions the host proposed to see where the extra magic $5,000 it promised to drop in your pocket came from. Turns out it relied on selling a sucker a bond for $X+5000 that you'd bought for $X, and convincing the sucker that $X+5000 in 10 years was worth $X+5000 today.

thrtythreeforty 4y ago

Oh man that's a riot. Thanks for sharing. There are several classes of problem that really seem to bring out the patent crackpots, of which perpetual motion is the most classic. Apparently data compression is another. The one I've personally run into is "secure" or "trusted" embedded systems. I've been contacted by a lot of people who believe that they can make a perfectly secure and trustworthy secret storage system just by building it out of an embedded Linux system. When I try to explain how a secure element is basically exactly the opposite of a Linux box, the excuses and bluster prevent me from actually making any progress in explaining. There's a term for this: "Not even wrong." That is, so off base that "wrong" is generous! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong

maweki 4y ago
> There are several classes of problem that really seem to bring out the [...] crackpots You wouldn't believe how many people on reddit have proved the Collatz conjecture or found a polytime algorithm for 3-SAT... If a problem is hard enough and stated easily enough, it is crackpot-central.
- thrtythreeforty 4y ago
  3-SAT is one of those where it really falls down fast, because you can just ask them for a solution for some arbitrary 3-SAT problem. By their own admission, they've found an algorithm!
  - maweki 4y ago
    A polytime algorithm, even an implementation of one, does not alone make a competitive SAT-solver for any of the ongoing SAT-competitions.

FreeFull 4y ago

I've compressed all the data I have down to a single bit, but now I can't figure out how to extract it back out.

vineyardmike 4y ago
is it a 1 or a 0?
- kingcharles 4y ago
  It was a quantum algorithm. It's in a superposition between the two values. I won't know until I look at it.
- FreeFull 4y ago
  The data is confidential, so I'm afraid I can't disclose that. Wouldn't want someone else to successfully decompress it.

cat_plus_plus 4y ago

Every PRNG is an excellent compression algorithm for particular kinds of random data. Actually every kind of unbounded size random data is generated by a device that doesn't contain all of the data at the start. These algorithms may not be generic, but a generic algorithm is not useful because you can always can just generate another random data set from scratch.

johnday 4y ago
Pseudorandomly generated data is not random data. There is no way to compress actually random information, by definition.

WalterBright 4y ago

Here's another popular but impossible item: the free lunch. Every economic proposal that promises a free lunch has a hidden cost, whether the proposer knows it's there or not. I remember once idly watching one of those "Get Rich Quick Through Real Estate Swindling" seminars on late night TV. Just for fun, I decided to work through the blizzard of transactions the host proposed to see where the extra magic $5,000 it promised to drop in your pocket came from. Turns out it relied on selling a sucker a bond for $X+5000 that you'd bought for $X, and convincing the sucker that $X+5000 in 10 years was worth $X+5000 today.