6 ms·

I don't know how we're defining "an objective measure", but pushing CRT sure looks like "move left." So does "we're going to help your kid transition without t

by anamax 4y ago

I don't know how we're defining "an objective measure", but pushing CRT sure looks like "move left." So does "we're going to help your kid transition without telling you" and XYs in women's sports. Of course, one can argue that none of this is new, that what's new is pushback.

dsr_ 4y ago
Please define what you mean by CRT so that we know what you are discussing. (I don't mean acronym expansion, I mean substance.)
- tastyfreeze 4y ago
  Whites are the oppressors and BIPOC are the oppressed. That anything and everything boils down to the color of your skin. That white Americans in particular are the sole perpetrators of historic slavery. That current white people should atone for the sins of past slave owners regardless of when their family came to the US.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    Well, you're absolutely correct, inasmuch as that's a racist tire fire that shouldn't be in schools. But that's not "critical race theory," it's overwrought caricature that mainstream (and, in my bubble, even the quite radical) progressives would disagree with.
    - tastyfreeze 4y ago
      CRT is a legal theory taught in colleges that is based on the ideas that are being taught in some elementary and secondary schools. No, CRT proper is not taught to children. Yes, the ideas that CRT is based on are being taught to some children. When the right says CRT is taught in schools this is what they are talking about. When the left and the media says that CRT isn't taught in schools they are talking about the CRT legal theory. https://areomagazine.com/2022/01/18/yes-children-are-being-taught-critical-race-theory-in-k-12-schools-in-the-us/ https://areomagazine.com/2022/01/18/yes-children-are-being-t...
      - lapcat 4y ago
        1) Areo magazine is a political hack publication. 2) The article about US schools was written by an Australian. 3) The article seems free of any actual empirical examples of its main claim. 4) There have always been groups in the US who want censorship in schools for anything they don't like politically or religiously, most notably, the science of biological evolution. The "oh no, what are they teaching the children in schools" crowd is very hard to take seriously. There are people who don't want slavery mentioned in schools. They don't want the Holocaust mentioned in schools. It's hard to imagine a more "radical agenda" than all of this censorship and denial of facts. Wipe away history? Wipe away science? The irony is that those who say "just teach the controversy about evolution and the Holocaust" [there's no scientific controversy] would also refuse to "teach the controversy" over CRT. I've never taught high school, but I did teach (philosophy) at the university level in the past, and the people who complain about what's taught in college typically believe laughably inaccurate caricatures of what actually happens in the classroom. We're not proselytizing students; it's hard enough just to keep them awake during class and prod them to actually do the assigned reading in the first place.
        klyrs 4y ago
        > 3) The article seems free of any actual empirical examples of its main claim. Yeah, I gave the article an honest read, looking for real evidence, because it runs entirely counter to my experience. I'm a mom of a kid in grade school, and I've talked to a lot of parents and teachers about this topic. I'm in the very liberal Vancouver area, and my same-aged friends are spread across Canada and the US. Nobody I know is seeing anything like the racist trash that tastyfreeze and Areo are spreading.
        tastyfreeze 4y ago
        Ok, how about some other sources? https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2021/12/22/no_critical_race_theory_in_schools_heres_the_abundant_evidence_saying_otherwise_808528.html https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2021/12/22/... https://www.heritage.org/education/report/rescuing-math-and-science-critical-race-theorys-racial-discrimination https://www.heritage.org/education/report/rescuing-math-and-...
klyrs 4y ago
"Pushing CRT" sounds pretty subjective. What measurement are you offering here? CRT, itself, is a pretty nebulous concept outside of actual legal scholarship. "Pushing CRT" is a common right-fringe talking point. How much do you think the majority of Democratic voters agree with "pushing CRT"?
- orangecat 4y ago
  This is the same sort of argument-by-definition that gun rights supporters use to dismiss anyone who talks about "assault weapons". A whole lot of parents don't want their children separated by race and have white kids told that they bear personal responsibility for historical racism and anything they accomplish is only possible due to the oppression of others, while black kids are told that society hates them and they'll never get a fair chance to succeed (unless of course we overthrow the racist misogynist capitalist power structure). If your response to that is "well actually CRT only refers to the specific legal theories of Kimberle Crenshaw", you're not addressing the actual point.
- anamax 4y ago
  I didn't say that I was offering a measurement, in fact, I asked how we were defining "an objective measure." Moreover, I have no idea how many Democrat voters go along with the institutional Left. That said, the institutional left (IL) is pushing Project 1619 and associated materials outside of law schools, whether or not you want to call that CRT. (Shades of "no true Scotsman.") This is part of a broader "all-in" on DIE by the IL. "Everything" is racism, sexism, etc. There's also deplatforming and doxxing. No, I'm not going to provide a scale. I'm not even going to order deplatforming and doxxing. So, the above isn't quantitative measure. That's a long way from "nothing is happening."
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > That's a long way from "nothing is happening." Who are you quoting? Nobody said that. This seems like a non sequitur.
    - 4y ago

by anamax 4y ago

dsr_ 4y ago

Please define what you mean by CRT so that we know what you are discussing. (I don't mean acronym expansion, I mean substance.)

tastyfreeze 4y ago
Whites are the oppressors and BIPOC are the oppressed. That anything and everything boils down to the color of your skin. That white Americans in particular are the sole perpetrators of historic slavery. That current white people should atone for the sins of past slave owners regardless of when their family came to the US.
- klyrs 4y ago
  Well, you're absolutely correct, inasmuch as that's a racist tire fire that shouldn't be in schools. But that's not "critical race theory," it's overwrought caricature that mainstream (and, in my bubble, even the quite radical) progressives would disagree with.
  - tastyfreeze 4y ago
    CRT is a legal theory taught in colleges that is based on the ideas that are being taught in some elementary and secondary schools. No, CRT proper is not taught to children. Yes, the ideas that CRT is based on are being taught to some children. When the right says CRT is taught in schools this is what they are talking about. When the left and the media says that CRT isn't taught in schools they are talking about the CRT legal theory. https://areomagazine.com/2022/01/18/yes-children-are-being-taught-critical-race-theory-in-k-12-schools-in-the-us/ https://areomagazine.com/2022/01/18/yes-children-are-being-t...
    - lapcat 4y ago
      1) Areo magazine is a political hack publication. 2) The article about US schools was written by an Australian. 3) The article seems free of any actual empirical examples of its main claim. 4) There have always been groups in the US who want censorship in schools for anything they don't like politically or religiously, most notably, the science of biological evolution. The "oh no, what are they teaching the children in schools" crowd is very hard to take seriously. There are people who don't want slavery mentioned in schools. They don't want the Holocaust mentioned in schools. It's hard to imagine a more "radical agenda" than all of this censorship and denial of facts. Wipe away history? Wipe away science? The irony is that those who say "just teach the controversy about evolution and the Holocaust" [there's no scientific controversy] would also refuse to "teach the controversy" over CRT. I've never taught high school, but I did teach (philosophy) at the university level in the past, and the people who complain about what's taught in college typically believe laughably inaccurate caricatures of what actually happens in the classroom. We're not proselytizing students; it's hard enough just to keep them awake during class and prod them to actually do the assigned reading in the first place.
      - klyrs 4y ago
        > 3) The article seems free of any actual empirical examples of its main claim. Yeah, I gave the article an honest read, looking for real evidence, because it runs entirely counter to my experience. I'm a mom of a kid in grade school, and I've talked to a lot of parents and teachers about this topic. I'm in the very liberal Vancouver area, and my same-aged friends are spread across Canada and the US. Nobody I know is seeing anything like the racist trash that tastyfreeze and Areo are spreading.
      - tastyfreeze 4y ago
        Ok, how about some other sources? https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2021/12/22/no_critical_race_theory_in_schools_heres_the_abundant_evidence_saying_otherwise_808528.html https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2021/12/22/... https://www.heritage.org/education/report/rescuing-math-and-science-critical-race-theorys-racial-discrimination https://www.heritage.org/education/report/rescuing-math-and-...

klyrs 4y ago

"Pushing CRT" sounds pretty subjective. What measurement are you offering here? CRT, itself, is a pretty nebulous concept outside of actual legal scholarship. "Pushing CRT" is a common right-fringe talking point. How much do you think the majority of Democratic voters agree with "pushing CRT"?

orangecat 4y ago
This is the same sort of argument-by-definition that gun rights supporters use to dismiss anyone who talks about "assault weapons". A whole lot of parents don't want their children separated by race and have white kids told that they bear personal responsibility for historical racism and anything they accomplish is only possible due to the oppression of others, while black kids are told that society hates them and they'll never get a fair chance to succeed (unless of course we overthrow the racist misogynist capitalist power structure). If your response to that is "well actually CRT only refers to the specific legal theories of Kimberle Crenshaw", you're not addressing the actual point.
anamax 4y ago
I didn't say that I was offering a measurement, in fact, I asked how we were defining "an objective measure." Moreover, I have no idea how many Democrat voters go along with the institutional Left. That said, the institutional left (IL) is pushing Project 1619 and associated materials outside of law schools, whether or not you want to call that CRT. (Shades of "no true Scotsman.") This is part of a broader "all-in" on DIE by the IL. "Everything" is racism, sexism, etc. There's also deplatforming and doxxing. No, I'm not going to provide a scale. I'm not even going to order deplatforming and doxxing. So, the above isn't quantitative measure. That's a long way from "nothing is happening."
- lapcat 4y ago
  > That's a long way from "nothing is happening." Who are you quoting? Nobody said that. This seems like a non sequitur.
  - 4y ago