3 ms·

No one is making an argument in favor of ignoring one specific problem. On the contrary, the complaint that all the books getting pulitzer prizes are about the

No one is making an argument in favor of ignoring one specific problem. On the contrary, the complaint that all the books getting pulitzer prizes are about the same topic, is not against that topic, but about other problems being ignored.

jacobolus 4y ago
This “same topic” is: how people and groups of people feel about and relate to themselves and each-other. Which is so broad as to encompass basically anything having to do with people.
- Jon_Lowtek 4y ago
  the topic as defined by the post making the complaint was "an ethnicity issue / exploring identity issues". You generalize it to "identity" and your critique is true for the definition you make, but you may be missing the point the complaint was about: that the books don't just feature this topic, they resolve around it. The post i commented on described the topic as "injustice" and argued that making the complaint is akin to asking to ignore injustice, and therefor morally wrong. I find that an eristic argument and engage it with logic, because i strongly dislike such arguments. Please note that i have no strong opinion whether the complaint is objectively true, complete nonsense, or only the subjective understanding of the person making the complaint. I do not have such an opinion, because i have not read any one of the winning books and will not make any argument about their content or major themes based on one sentence summaries.
  - jacobolus 4y ago
    The books in question almost certainly don’t all revolve around group identity, though some might. Some of them mention it in their short blurb because someone in the marketing department thought it would help sell more books. Others don’t mention it explicitly in their blurbs, but touch on related subjects and the top-level poster here is guessing the subject will be featured (before having read the books). The only way to make a solid claim about this is to actually carefully read the prizewinning books, which no one here has done. People constantly worried they might be exposed to “identity” are even more annoying than those who won’t stop talking about the subject. I have seen several children’s novels where the characters tangentially discussed their ancestors’ origins or took part in cultural traditions, or the book incidentally featured a disabled character or a gay character or a homeless character, and then random Amazon reviewers with a chip on their shoulder will complain about how this is all too “woke” for them.
    - Jon_Lowtek 4y ago
      Please note that i have no strong opinion whether the complaint is objectively true, complete nonsense, or only the subjective understanding of the person making the complaint. I do not have such an opinion, because i have not read any one of the winning books and will not make any argument about their content or major themes based on one sentence summaries. Also, i don't particularly care about "People", you may say you have seen them, but they could all be made of straw as far as i know. If you think you can convince me by denouncing the top poster, you must have missed my entire point about eristic. I do however agree that people on all sides of every discussion can be stupefyingly annoying. And i agree that the absolute claim seems unlikely. When looking for a counter example I would pick up the history winner about Cuba, but again i would prefer to read it first before talking about it. In a debate we could ask the one making the argument to provide detailed reviews of all the books, however we would still need to read them to verify the answer. And that doesn't work well in internet debates where it is normal for people to shout bold claims and leave.

jacobolus 4y ago

This “same topic” is: how people and groups of people feel about and relate to themselves and each-other. Which is so broad as to encompass basically anything having to do with people.

Jon_Lowtek 4y ago
the topic as defined by the post making the complaint was "an ethnicity issue / exploring identity issues". You generalize it to "identity" and your critique is true for the definition you make, but you may be missing the point the complaint was about: that the books don't just feature this topic, they resolve around it. The post i commented on described the topic as "injustice" and argued that making the complaint is akin to asking to ignore injustice, and therefor morally wrong. I find that an eristic argument and engage it with logic, because i strongly dislike such arguments. Please note that i have no strong opinion whether the complaint is objectively true, complete nonsense, or only the subjective understanding of the person making the complaint. I do not have such an opinion, because i have not read any one of the winning books and will not make any argument about their content or major themes based on one sentence summaries.
- jacobolus 4y ago
  The books in question almost certainly don’t all revolve around group identity, though some might. Some of them mention it in their short blurb because someone in the marketing department thought it would help sell more books. Others don’t mention it explicitly in their blurbs, but touch on related subjects and the top-level poster here is guessing the subject will be featured (before having read the books). The only way to make a solid claim about this is to actually carefully read the prizewinning books, which no one here has done. People constantly worried they might be exposed to “identity” are even more annoying than those who won’t stop talking about the subject. I have seen several children’s novels where the characters tangentially discussed their ancestors’ origins or took part in cultural traditions, or the book incidentally featured a disabled character or a gay character or a homeless character, and then random Amazon reviewers with a chip on their shoulder will complain about how this is all too “woke” for them.
  - Jon_Lowtek 4y ago
    Please note that i have no strong opinion whether the complaint is objectively true, complete nonsense, or only the subjective understanding of the person making the complaint. I do not have such an opinion, because i have not read any one of the winning books and will not make any argument about their content or major themes based on one sentence summaries. Also, i don't particularly care about "People", you may say you have seen them, but they could all be made of straw as far as i know. If you think you can convince me by denouncing the top poster, you must have missed my entire point about eristic. I do however agree that people on all sides of every discussion can be stupefyingly annoying. And i agree that the absolute claim seems unlikely. When looking for a counter example I would pick up the history winner about Cuba, but again i would prefer to read it first before talking about it. In a debate we could ask the one making the argument to provide detailed reviews of all the books, however we would still need to read them to verify the answer. And that doesn't work well in internet debates where it is normal for people to shout bold claims and leave.