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I don't understand your argument. You are helping others & others help you. What's the problem? > If I made this story a bit more personal and wrote ("I am to

I don't understand your argument. You are helping others & others help you. What's the problem? > If I made this story a bit more personal and wrote ("I am too ill to work anymore, so I drove to my son's house and took $200 off his counter to buy my medication) HN would be reacting with outrage. How about making the story more fitting the reality here: You drive to your sons house and ask him to help you with your health bill and he helps you because...why wouldn't he?

notch656a 4y ago
>You drive to your sons house and ask him to help you with your health bill and he helps you because...why wouldn't he? Asking is fine. Telling them they must is not. If the mechanism for payment from the youth to the elderly is voluntary I have no problem with it.
- Krasnol 4y ago
  It kinda is voluntary. If you don't like it, you can leave the country which wants you to pay. I don't get why you have a problem with that. It sounds to me like some anti-social behaviour pattern. Don't you pay for taxes or Government services too? This is how a civilized society works. The attitude you display here has become a bad joke when people talk about the US health system. You must be aware of that. What do you expect people to do which can't afford to pay their health bills because they've been unlucky or something like that? Are they supposed to just die?
  - nybble41 4y ago
    > It kinda is voluntary. If you don't like it, you can leave the country which wants you to pay. Voluntary would be staying where you are and still not being forced to pay. When a mugger presents their victim with a choice like "your money or your life" they're not paying voluntarily just because there was another option. You don't have the right to evict people from their homes any more than you have the right to take their money. > It sounds to me like some anti-social behaviour pattern. The attempt to normalize theft is the only "anti-social behaviour pattern" here.
    - Krasnol 4y ago
      The funny thing here is that your obviously anti-social behaviour only works in a society where being anti-social has been normalized. You'd be dead in a social society because as a lone, greedy individual, you're weaker than a group where the strong care for the weak. But even you must be aware that your model is coming to an end. The anti-social aspects of it have become a topic. Something which hasn't been the case in the past decades because the downsides of this model became so obvious. You are part of a finally dying thought system and the parts you didn't answer to speak for themselves.
      - nybble41 4y ago
        You're either trolling or completely clueless. I suspect the former is more likely but I'll try to give you the benefit of the doubt. > You'd be dead in a social society because as a lone, greedy individual … You're obviously reading way more into my comment than I actually wrote, which says more about you than me. I am 100% in support of groups working together voluntarily and looking out for each other. The system you advocated for is not that, and opposing it does not make one "lone" or "greedy". > … you're weaker than a group where the strong care for the weak. Imposing a "choice" of compulsory payments or eviction is not the strong caring for the weak, but rather the strong preying upon the weak. > … the parts you didn't answer to speak for themselves. I didn't address the rest of your prior comment because it wasn't worth a response. But since you insist: > Don't you pay for taxes or Government services too? This is how a civilized society works. Civilized society persists despite taxes, not because of them. Theft is not civilized, and treating it as legitimate is corrosive to any civilized society. > What do you expect people to do which can't afford to pay their health bills because they've been unlucky or something like that? Are they supposed to just die? Obviously they aren't supposed to just die. That question was not asked in good faith. Taking other people's stuff isn't the answer either; the products of their labor are not for you to spend. People are expected work to provide for themselves and to plan ahead for the future, setting aside a portion of the surplus during good times to sustain them through the bad times. Working together with others makes this much easier but it is first and foremost an individual responsibility. For the truly unlucky cases there is plenty of honest, actually-voluntary charity to go around.

notch656a 4y ago

>You drive to your sons house and ask him to help you with your health bill and he helps you because...why wouldn't he? Asking is fine. Telling them they must is not. If the mechanism for payment from the youth to the elderly is voluntary I have no problem with it.

Krasnol 4y ago
It kinda is voluntary. If you don't like it, you can leave the country which wants you to pay. I don't get why you have a problem with that. It sounds to me like some anti-social behaviour pattern. Don't you pay for taxes or Government services too? This is how a civilized society works. The attitude you display here has become a bad joke when people talk about the US health system. You must be aware of that. What do you expect people to do which can't afford to pay their health bills because they've been unlucky or something like that? Are they supposed to just die?
- nybble41 4y ago
  > It kinda is voluntary. If you don't like it, you can leave the country which wants you to pay. Voluntary would be staying where you are and still not being forced to pay. When a mugger presents their victim with a choice like "your money or your life" they're not paying voluntarily just because there was another option. You don't have the right to evict people from their homes any more than you have the right to take their money. > It sounds to me like some anti-social behaviour pattern. The attempt to normalize theft is the only "anti-social behaviour pattern" here.
  - Krasnol 4y ago
    The funny thing here is that your obviously anti-social behaviour only works in a society where being anti-social has been normalized. You'd be dead in a social society because as a lone, greedy individual, you're weaker than a group where the strong care for the weak. But even you must be aware that your model is coming to an end. The anti-social aspects of it have become a topic. Something which hasn't been the case in the past decades because the downsides of this model became so obvious. You are part of a finally dying thought system and the parts you didn't answer to speak for themselves.
    - nybble41 4y ago
      You're either trolling or completely clueless. I suspect the former is more likely but I'll try to give you the benefit of the doubt. > You'd be dead in a social society because as a lone, greedy individual … You're obviously reading way more into my comment than I actually wrote, which says more about you than me. I am 100% in support of groups working together voluntarily and looking out for each other. The system you advocated for is not that, and opposing it does not make one "lone" or "greedy". > … you're weaker than a group where the strong care for the weak. Imposing a "choice" of compulsory payments or eviction is not the strong caring for the weak, but rather the strong preying upon the weak. > … the parts you didn't answer to speak for themselves. I didn't address the rest of your prior comment because it wasn't worth a response. But since you insist: > Don't you pay for taxes or Government services too? This is how a civilized society works. Civilized society persists despite taxes, not because of them. Theft is not civilized, and treating it as legitimate is corrosive to any civilized society. > What do you expect people to do which can't afford to pay their health bills because they've been unlucky or something like that? Are they supposed to just die? Obviously they aren't supposed to just die. That question was not asked in good faith. Taking other people's stuff isn't the answer either; the products of their labor are not for you to spend. People are expected work to provide for themselves and to plan ahead for the future, setting aside a portion of the surplus during good times to sustain them through the bad times. Working together with others makes this much easier but it is first and foremost an individual responsibility. For the truly unlucky cases there is plenty of honest, actually-voluntary charity to go around.