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Hey, I actually have experience with that school! I did some consulting with them about a decade ago. The ransomware attack certainly didn't help, but it is wi

Hey, I actually have experience with that school! I did some consulting with them about a decade ago. The ransomware attack certainly didn't help, but it is wildly misleading to say, or even imply that caused them to shut down. The actual reasons: (a) They filled a niche that didn't need to be filled anymore. They used to absorb students from other local universities (ISU, UIS, UIUC). Those schools have realized the value of helping their own students be successful, leading to declining enrollment. (b) They were previously a community college, and began awarding bachelor's degrees. They were then fighting in a weight class way above what they were used to, and never really got their feet under them (to use some mixed metaphors). (c) They were expensive for the quality. They gave a good education, but had zero connections to business and industry to justify the cost. (d) They had a pipeline from Chicago's south and south-east side that has recently been sniped by large state schools, leading to a decline in enrollment. For context, I worked with them on enrollment management and declining enrollment a decade ago.

haggy102 5y ago
Greatly appreciate the context. Closures like this are rarely (if ever) as one dimensional as the public announcements make them appear to be.
tmp_anon_22 5y ago
> enrollment management What would be a comparable industry perspective to the way colleges fight over tuition generators (students)? Oil companies fighting over oil fields?
- nsv 5y ago
  Any industry which has clients that pay for a service, I guess.
  - astrange 5y ago
    The difference is that (some) colleges are also motivated to get you to apply so they can reject you, because it makes them look more exclusive.
    - newsclues 5y ago
      Don't some financial service businesses operate on similar principals.
      - astrange 5y ago
        Like Amex Centurion cards? They're definitely exclusive (or fake-exclusive) but I haven't seen them actually advertise rejection rates like colleges sometimes do.
- cheriot 5y ago
  Large purchase, most customers choose one and leave the market, many possible consumers, seasonal. Residential solar or real estate agents? The crazy thing to me about higher ed is that there's large loans and everybody qualifies. We'd probably get a better skills/job match by including the major in interest rate calculations.
  - nanidin 5y ago
    > We'd probably get a better skills/job match by including the major in interest rate calculations. This brings up the hairy issue that all education should not be focused on eventual income generation. We still need our English, History, and other majors out there in the real world even if we don't expect them to make a great ROI on their degrees. Their contributions to society are still worthwhile. I think a policy that incorporates the major into the interest rate would drive universities to cut less profitable programs, and MAYBE lower tuition for those majors. I think my approach to change the system would be to put a cap on the maximum loan that the government will back, and have that cap be influenced by major. This would be similar to the conventional loan situation for mortgages.
    - cheriot 5y ago
      > We still need our English, History, and other majors out there in the real world even if we don't expect them to make a great ROI on their degrees. I agree, but getting them from an expensive private school is a luxury. > I think my approach to change the system would be to put a cap on the maximum loan that the government will back, and have that cap be influenced by major. This would be similar to the conventional loan situation for mortgages. Some kind of cap is a really good idea. Especially if that means state schools are covered, but not the entire 80k/year of a private one. The way student loans are difficult to discharge in bankruptcy means a lot of kids make a mistake they'll spend the rest of their life trying to get away from.
    - scarface74 5y ago
      > This brings up the hairy issue that all education should not be focused on eventual income generation. Why would anyone in the middle or lower income class spend money on a college degree that was not geared toward increasing their income? There is a reason that journalism graduates predominantly come from wealthy families.
- Loughla 5y ago
  Marketing pepsi versus coke maybe? It's all sales if you boil it down (sadly). Actually, in my opinion, one of the main problems in higher education today is that the value proposition of the actual education and student experience is secondary to the ability to market. In other words, new programs are presented by faculty (or rarely staff because of politics) and administration will immediately ask how this can be sold to increase enrollment (read: revenue). In other words, what is best for students, in terms of experience and employment outcomes, will always take a backseat to what is flashy and looks good in a brochure.
  - shuntress 5y ago
    Well that is the problem with everything, right? When Profit is the system's main incentive, it can be easy for decision makers to start viewing "profit" as an input rather than an output.
- newsclues 5y ago
  Education is a unique industry and market on to itself. I worked in a part of it, and edu is just different than real business. You have government funding, both for research and education. You have tuition and fees, which students pay but there are student loans and grants etc. You have endowments. You have alumni and donor funding. You have schools that develop technology and own profitable patents. Sports is its own topic that I don't know enough about to comment on.
- kansface 5y ago
  Oil wells last more than 4 years. Most of these colleges have effectively no endowment and not close to enough state funding. Maybe leasing cars or code boot camps?
benatkin 5y ago
> Lincoln College is scheduled to close its doors Friday, becoming the first U.S. institution of higher learning to shut down in part due to a ransomware attack. In the first paragraph it's saying in part. The article also details other challenges they face. We'll never know if they would have found a way to address these challenges and survive long-term had this not happened.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
abirch 5y ago
There are many of these colleges that are going under. Their competitive advantage was that not everyone could go to the top Tier schools so they provide an expensive education. Especially when you see what you can do with Bloom Tech (fka Lambda School)
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  https://hechingerreport.org/analysis-hundreds-of-colleges-and-universities-show-financial-warning-signs/ https://hechingerreport.org/analysis-hundreds-of-colleges-an... (Analysis: hundreds of colleges and universities show financial warning signs) https://tuitiontracker.org/fitness/ https://tuitiontracker.org/fitness/
jacquesm 5y ago
I totally buy that it wasn't the only reason but it is a possibility that an already fragile institution would be brought down by such an attack, if not this one then some other one. Some constructs are on the edge and kicking them may cause them to collapse. It probably will only change the timing but it is still the kick that is the first order cause of the collapse. Plenty of institutions are being hit with a perfect storm, two years of COVID and associated rules probably didn't help either.
- etempleton 5y ago
  It was likely the final straw, but certainly if that is all it took for the institution to collapse they were going to fail soon regardless. A college or three have failed every year for the past 5 years or so. There will be more until populations of college age students starts to grow again. Most small colleges are extremely vulnerable. Size and endowments offers some protection to large and wealthy schools.
- aaron695 5y ago
thaumasiotes 5y ago
> Those schools have realized the value of helping their own students be successful Are they helping them in any way other than marking what would previously have been a failing grade as a passing grade instead?

haggy102 5y ago

Greatly appreciate the context. Closures like this are rarely (if ever) as one dimensional as the public announcements make them appear to be.

tmp_anon_22 5y ago

> enrollment management What would be a comparable industry perspective to the way colleges fight over tuition generators (students)? Oil companies fighting over oil fields?

nsv 5y ago
Any industry which has clients that pay for a service, I guess.
- astrange 5y ago
  The difference is that (some) colleges are also motivated to get you to apply so they can reject you, because it makes them look more exclusive.
  - newsclues 5y ago
    Don't some financial service businesses operate on similar principals.
    - astrange 5y ago
      Like Amex Centurion cards? They're definitely exclusive (or fake-exclusive) but I haven't seen them actually advertise rejection rates like colleges sometimes do.
cheriot 5y ago
Large purchase, most customers choose one and leave the market, many possible consumers, seasonal. Residential solar or real estate agents? The crazy thing to me about higher ed is that there's large loans and everybody qualifies. We'd probably get a better skills/job match by including the major in interest rate calculations.
- nanidin 5y ago
  > We'd probably get a better skills/job match by including the major in interest rate calculations. This brings up the hairy issue that all education should not be focused on eventual income generation. We still need our English, History, and other majors out there in the real world even if we don't expect them to make a great ROI on their degrees. Their contributions to society are still worthwhile. I think a policy that incorporates the major into the interest rate would drive universities to cut less profitable programs, and MAYBE lower tuition for those majors. I think my approach to change the system would be to put a cap on the maximum loan that the government will back, and have that cap be influenced by major. This would be similar to the conventional loan situation for mortgages.
  - cheriot 5y ago
    > We still need our English, History, and other majors out there in the real world even if we don't expect them to make a great ROI on their degrees. I agree, but getting them from an expensive private school is a luxury. > I think my approach to change the system would be to put a cap on the maximum loan that the government will back, and have that cap be influenced by major. This would be similar to the conventional loan situation for mortgages. Some kind of cap is a really good idea. Especially if that means state schools are covered, but not the entire 80k/year of a private one. The way student loans are difficult to discharge in bankruptcy means a lot of kids make a mistake they'll spend the rest of their life trying to get away from.
  - scarface74 5y ago
    > This brings up the hairy issue that all education should not be focused on eventual income generation. Why would anyone in the middle or lower income class spend money on a college degree that was not geared toward increasing their income? There is a reason that journalism graduates predominantly come from wealthy families.
Loughla 5y ago
Marketing pepsi versus coke maybe? It's all sales if you boil it down (sadly). Actually, in my opinion, one of the main problems in higher education today is that the value proposition of the actual education and student experience is secondary to the ability to market. In other words, new programs are presented by faculty (or rarely staff because of politics) and administration will immediately ask how this can be sold to increase enrollment (read: revenue). In other words, what is best for students, in terms of experience and employment outcomes, will always take a backseat to what is flashy and looks good in a brochure.
- shuntress 5y ago
  Well that is the problem with everything, right? When Profit is the system's main incentive, it can be easy for decision makers to start viewing "profit" as an input rather than an output.
newsclues 5y ago
Education is a unique industry and market on to itself. I worked in a part of it, and edu is just different than real business. You have government funding, both for research and education. You have tuition and fees, which students pay but there are student loans and grants etc. You have endowments. You have alumni and donor funding. You have schools that develop technology and own profitable patents. Sports is its own topic that I don't know enough about to comment on.
kansface 5y ago
Oil wells last more than 4 years. Most of these colleges have effectively no endowment and not close to enough state funding. Maybe leasing cars or code boot camps?

benatkin 5y ago

> Lincoln College is scheduled to close its doors Friday, becoming the first U.S. institution of higher learning to shut down in part due to a ransomware attack. In the first paragraph it's saying in part. The article also details other challenges they face. We'll never know if they would have found a way to address these challenges and survive long-term had this not happened.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

abirch 5y ago

There are many of these colleges that are going under. Their competitive advantage was that not everyone could go to the top Tier schools so they provide an expensive education. Especially when you see what you can do with Bloom Tech (fka Lambda School)

toomuchtodo 5y ago
https://hechingerreport.org/analysis-hundreds-of-colleges-and-universities-show-financial-warning-signs/ https://hechingerreport.org/analysis-hundreds-of-colleges-an... (Analysis: hundreds of colleges and universities show financial warning signs) https://tuitiontracker.org/fitness/ https://tuitiontracker.org/fitness/

jacquesm 5y ago

I totally buy that it wasn't the only reason but it is a possibility that an already fragile institution would be brought down by such an attack, if not this one then some other one. Some constructs are on the edge and kicking them may cause them to collapse. It probably will only change the timing but it is still the kick that is the first order cause of the collapse. Plenty of institutions are being hit with a perfect storm, two years of COVID and associated rules probably didn't help either.

etempleton 5y ago
It was likely the final straw, but certainly if that is all it took for the institution to collapse they were going to fail soon regardless. A college or three have failed every year for the past 5 years or so. There will be more until populations of college age students starts to grow again. Most small colleges are extremely vulnerable. Size and endowments offers some protection to large and wealthy schools.
aaron695 5y ago

thaumasiotes 5y ago

> Those schools have realized the value of helping their own students be successful Are they helping them in any way other than marking what would previously have been a failing grade as a passing grade instead?