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I'm not sure the poster understands. The information that is sold can be and is linked up with other information. The big consumer database companies in the U

I'm not sure the poster understands. The information that is sold can be and is linked up with other information. The big consumer database companies in the United States maintain databases with thousands of fields of data per person in the U.S.A. That's today (or ten years ago). Tomorrow, or ten years from now, it will probably be hundreds of thousands of fields of data per person in the United States. Your consumer profile, readily available for sale, will include not only the fact that your favorite tampon brand is Tampax Ultra with Wings (that's already there) but also that you take medication for incontinence (that's already there) and that you spend 15 minutes every day at the local coffee shop during working hours (beep! This app requests to know your location Y/N?) and that you view a disproportionate number of webpages dealing with alcoholism and depression on days after days in which you have purchased 2L bottles of Wild Turkey. Facial recognition is shortly going to render every digital photo and video ever uploaded to the net FULLY IDENTIFIABLE as to all of the people pictured. Coming in 2020: a startup (or Facebook plugin) that traces your entire life through publicly available photos and videos. Kevin Curtin has a very limited imagination regarding the privacy apocalypse that is upon us. The data shadow that follows every person around is already huge, and will become gargantuan. It's already inescapable and out of your control.

gyardley 15y ago
The first time someone takes facial recognition software and allows the public to easily apply it to amateur porn, there's going to be some fireworks. That uber-detailed personal profile used without your consent worries me a bit less - while we'll get to the same place, it'll be completely because of voluntary sharing of information. You'll want that profile, because it'll save you lots of money. People tend to worry that negative things will happen to them if information about them is used without their consent - for instance, your example might worry that his insurance premiums will go up because he's buying Wild Turkey in bulk and surfing pages on alcoholism. This will never happen. In reality, positive things will happen to people when they freely consent to share positive information about themselves - and as those people are rewarded, the pool of people who don't share becomes riskier and is therefore economically punished for not sharing. Two examples that are with us today: -- Car insurance. Students with better grades tend to have less accidents, so you can get a better insurance policy from your provider by voluntarily turning over your grades. Since turning over your grades is a simple thing, the result is predictable - if you don't turn over your grades, it's safe to assume you have bad grades (and therefore are an accident risk). You've kept your privacy, but your premiums are still going up. -- College tuition. To qualify their kids for student loans and aid, parents have to supply full documentation about their income. Parents do so voluntarily, because it can only benefit them - but this means if you don't submit documentation about your income, the college can safely assume you have a lot of money, and you get charged the highest possible tuition. Keeping your income private could cost you tens of thousands of dollars a year. When personal information starts being used for things like insurance premiums, Blue Cross won't be creeping through your credit card receipts without your permission - instead, they'll invite users to voluntarily share their web, purchase, or location history, and they'll use it to reward them with a discount. As more and more users do so and are rewarded for the healthy lifestyles reflected in their data, the body of people not bothering to share will get riskier, and their premiums will rise. Same outcome, no privacy violations.
- Psyonic 15y ago
  That's one side of things. Knowing that you drink heavily on weekends might raise your insurance premiums as well... every little bit of data can go one way or the other, and it's not true that they are already assuming the worst about everyone, or we wouldn't be insurable.
nl 15y ago
I can't speak for the poster, but I understand all of that, and I still don't see the problem. Or rather - I see the problems, but I think they are overstated. Just saying "PRIVACY GRRRR!" doesn't make sense - it is much, much more subtle than that. The poster explicitly addresses this: I understand the instinctive philosphic reaction that "we own our data" but when I dig beaneath that initlal gut response I come up empty. I do think there is an important distinction between privacy and security that sometimes people miss. There is certain information (address, account numbers, ss #, etc.) that if obtained by a third party, could result in some real world problems that will negatively impact my life. But information social networks sell to advertisers doesn't fall into this category. Your comment simply fails to address this. You seem to be stating "Technology is powerful! We should be scared", but without addressing the very real points the poster made it doesn't really add a great deal to the discussion. The so called privacy apocalypse is far from it. "Nightmare" scenarios like you spend 15 minutes every day at the local coffee shop during working hours plainly aren't as bad as you seem to think. It's trivial for a company to track how long a person spends in their office already - companies that care about it already do it. Given that commercial consumer databases already exist, please explain why the worst thing to come from it is annoying unsolicited mail and phone calls? If that is a privacy apocalypse then I feel it is a small price to pay for using services that don't charge us money.

gyardley 15y ago

The first time someone takes facial recognition software and allows the public to easily apply it to amateur porn, there's going to be some fireworks. That uber-detailed personal profile used without your consent worries me a bit less - while we'll get to the same place, it'll be completely because of voluntary sharing of information. You'll want that profile, because it'll save you lots of money. People tend to worry that negative things will happen to them if information about them is used without their consent - for instance, your example might worry that his insurance premiums will go up because he's buying Wild Turkey in bulk and surfing pages on alcoholism. This will never happen. In reality, positive things will happen to people when they freely consent to share positive information about themselves - and as those people are rewarded, the pool of people who don't share becomes riskier and is therefore economically punished for not sharing. Two examples that are with us today: -- Car insurance. Students with better grades tend to have less accidents, so you can get a better insurance policy from your provider by voluntarily turning over your grades. Since turning over your grades is a simple thing, the result is predictable - if you don't turn over your grades, it's safe to assume you have bad grades (and therefore are an accident risk). You've kept your privacy, but your premiums are still going up. -- College tuition. To qualify their kids for student loans and aid, parents have to supply full documentation about their income. Parents do so voluntarily, because it can only benefit them - but this means if you don't submit documentation about your income, the college can safely assume you have a lot of money, and you get charged the highest possible tuition. Keeping your income private could cost you tens of thousands of dollars a year. When personal information starts being used for things like insurance premiums, Blue Cross won't be creeping through your credit card receipts without your permission - instead, they'll invite users to voluntarily share their web, purchase, or location history, and they'll use it to reward them with a discount. As more and more users do so and are rewarded for the healthy lifestyles reflected in their data, the body of people not bothering to share will get riskier, and their premiums will rise. Same outcome, no privacy violations.

Psyonic 15y ago
That's one side of things. Knowing that you drink heavily on weekends might raise your insurance premiums as well... every little bit of data can go one way or the other, and it's not true that they are already assuming the worst about everyone, or we wouldn't be insurable.

nl 15y ago

I can't speak for the poster, but I understand all of that, and I still don't see the problem. Or rather - I see the problems, but I think they are overstated. Just saying "PRIVACY GRRRR!" doesn't make sense - it is much, much more subtle than that. The poster explicitly addresses this: I understand the instinctive philosphic reaction that "we own our data" but when I dig beaneath that initlal gut response I come up empty. I do think there is an important distinction between privacy and security that sometimes people miss. There is certain information (address, account numbers, ss #, etc.) that if obtained by a third party, could result in some real world problems that will negatively impact my life. But information social networks sell to advertisers doesn't fall into this category. Your comment simply fails to address this. You seem to be stating "Technology is powerful! We should be scared", but without addressing the very real points the poster made it doesn't really add a great deal to the discussion. The so called privacy apocalypse is far from it. "Nightmare" scenarios like you spend 15 minutes every day at the local coffee shop during working hours plainly aren't as bad as you seem to think. It's trivial for a company to track how long a person spends in their office already - companies that care about it already do it. Given that commercial consumer databases already exist, please explain why the worst thing to come from it is annoying unsolicited mail and phone calls? If that is a privacy apocalypse then I feel it is a small price to pay for using services that don't charge us money.