4 ms·

I don't see this as a Wall Street problem though; they should be able to optimize for their incentives within the rules structure. It's the regulators fault for

I don't see this as a Wall Street problem though; they should be able to optimize for their incentives within the rules structure. It's the regulators fault for allowing trains to be this long.

Swenrekcah 4y ago
It's both a Wall Street problem and incompetent/corrupt government problem.
- Invictus0 4y ago
  Why is it a Wall Street problem?
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    Publicly-held corporations, and earnings.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - Swenrekcah 4y ago
    Because you cant do unethical and societally harmful things and say it’s not your fault cause it’s not illegal. I mean, sure you can legally, but you’re still a harmful entity with a problem.
    - Invictus0 4y ago
      Do you want wishful thinking or solutions? Wall St has no conscience, it never has and it never will. Let's move past that and build a structure of laws that enforces the ethics we care about.
      - Swenrekcah 4y ago
        Sure, of course we need the laws and enforcement agencies. I can't see what's wrong with calling out people for unethical, shitty and harmful behaviour however.
xpe 4y ago
Assigning fault (or blame) to only one party is most likely foolish and unwise. The world is not that simple. It is complex, as in a complex system -- not the same meaning as in "throw up our hands because it is too complex to handle!". Untangling the interrelated factors is complex. Making sense of a complex system honestly is key to finding workable and fair solutions
- Invictus0 4y ago
  What's so complex about this situation? I see no problem with mandating a maximum train length.
  - xpe 4y ago
    Are you asking what is 'so complex' about public policy, safety, and economics? Even if this is only about maximum train length, which it isn't, the underlying dynamics, as they are perceived by and affect all the stakeholders, are complex. This is what I mean by complex systems: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_system Is this what you mean?
  - xpe 4y ago
    Imagine that you were a regulator, such as a member of the National Transportation Safety Board [1]. Put yourself in that position. How would you go about deciding the appropriate regulation? Of course that is not the only stakeholder in the situation. Now for each key stakeholder, including railroad companies, railroad employees, shipping companies, the purchasing public, and landowners near tracks, what would be your professional opinion on the correct outcome? It is pretty clear that what you see depends on where you sit. Now step back even further and imagine you are an omniscient being that can truly comprehend all of the above perspectives. How would you go about deciding the correct outcome? It will depend on your notion of good and fairness. I think for many definitions of good, you'll find that considerable analysis is involved. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Transportation_Safety_Board https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Transportation_Safe...
    - 4y ago

I don't see this as a Wall Street problem though; they should be able to optimize for their incentives within the rules structure. It's the regulators fault for allowing trains to be this long.

Swenrekcah 4y ago

It's both a Wall Street problem and incompetent/corrupt government problem.

Invictus0 4y ago
Why is it a Wall Street problem?
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  Publicly-held corporations, and earnings.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Swenrekcah 4y ago
  Because you cant do unethical and societally harmful things and say it’s not your fault cause it’s not illegal. I mean, sure you can legally, but you’re still a harmful entity with a problem.
  - Invictus0 4y ago
    Do you want wishful thinking or solutions? Wall St has no conscience, it never has and it never will. Let's move past that and build a structure of laws that enforces the ethics we care about.
    - Swenrekcah 4y ago
      Sure, of course we need the laws and enforcement agencies. I can't see what's wrong with calling out people for unethical, shitty and harmful behaviour however.

xpe 4y ago

Assigning fault (or blame) to only one party is most likely foolish and unwise. The world is not that simple. It is complex, as in a complex system -- not the same meaning as in "throw up our hands because it is too complex to handle!". Untangling the interrelated factors is complex. Making sense of a complex system honestly is key to finding workable and fair solutions

Invictus0 4y ago
What's so complex about this situation? I see no problem with mandating a maximum train length.
- xpe 4y ago
  Are you asking what is 'so complex' about public policy, safety, and economics? Even if this is only about maximum train length, which it isn't, the underlying dynamics, as they are perceived by and affect all the stakeholders, are complex. This is what I mean by complex systems: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_system Is this what you mean?
- xpe 4y ago
  Imagine that you were a regulator, such as a member of the National Transportation Safety Board [1]. Put yourself in that position. How would you go about deciding the appropriate regulation? Of course that is not the only stakeholder in the situation. Now for each key stakeholder, including railroad companies, railroad employees, shipping companies, the purchasing public, and landowners near tracks, what would be your professional opinion on the correct outcome? It is pretty clear that what you see depends on where you sit. Now step back even further and imagine you are an omniscient being that can truly comprehend all of the above perspectives. How would you go about deciding the correct outcome? It will depend on your notion of good and fairness. I think for many definitions of good, you'll find that considerable analysis is involved. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Transportation_Safety_Board https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Transportation_Safe...
  - 4y ago