5 ms·

I guess that's a normal reaction when your money feels untouchable, almost sacred, stored in the world's reserve currency in one of the largest institutions. Di

by lvass 4y ago

I guess that's a normal reaction when your money feels untouchable, almost sacred, stored in the world's reserve currency in one of the largest institutions. Digital money is no man's land (and unbearably inflationary) in some parts of the world, with crypto you can just actually take care of your damn keys and don't depend on trusting someone suspicious.

vorpalhex 4y ago
How many crypto breaches have there been this year alone again? If hundreds of millions of dollars can be lost by professional crypto firms employing crypto engineers, what hope do Bob and Sally have?
- lvass 4y ago
  Apples and oranges comparison. How many of those breaches were from people who stored their keys safely and didn't interact with smart contracts? That's something a person is able to do. Guaranteeing your fiat is safe in some places is simply impossible.
  - sp332 4y ago
    Actually if someone fraudulently removes money from my bank account, I am not liable for the loss. Protections with credit cards are even stronger.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - mvc 4y ago
    I was subject of an exceedingly well timed and executed email phishing attack which convinced me to use my online banking system to deposit 100k into the attackers account. Got the money back in full. God bless the fiat system.
- bavell 4y ago
  > If hundreds of millions of dollars can be lost by professional crypto firms employing crypto engineers, what hope do Bob and Sally have? Haha I'm pretty pro-crypto but "professional crypto firms" almost sounds like an oxymoron... All Bob and Sally have to do is use a private wallet and store their private keys with redundant backups. Not foolproof but pretty straightforward. The engineers running the exchanges, markets, etc have way more attack vectors and pitfalls to worry about.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    And how do Bob and Sally use their totally offline cold storage for.. uh.. anything other than paperweights? Oh, right, they need to unfreeze the wallet using something like metamask and then execute a transfer, running against a service they can't audit... and hope there are no scams in that process, and that metamask isn't vulnerable, and that they only click the right authorization prompts.. Of course this assumes they aren't transferring from a known terrorist or a company ignoring KYC laws which might also land them in hot water.
nick238 4y ago
That's great, but how do I sell a $2 candy bar to someone and not have to charge them a $2 transaction fee (or $20 if there's a gas war), and also make sure their transaction actually goes through. With crypto you still need to trust someone: the blockchain owners, as they can always do a rollback at any time, as happened with the DAO.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > With crypto you still need to trust someone: Yes, but the people you need to trust are self-selected, anonymous, distributed, and unaccountable, which is, apparently, better somehow.
  - notahacker 4y ago
    And for the majority of real world transactions, you still have to trust "fiat" gateways at either end anyway...
- danlugo92 4y ago
  Use bitcoin lightning
- rglullis 4y ago
  There are no blockchain owners. There is just a blockchain, and consensus rules to what goes into it. People talk about the DAO thing as if it was just a matter of calling some people and ask them to refund everyone, as if history could be reversed. What happened was a fork, and the decision on what fork to go on still required consensus building: those running ethereum nodes and who were against the DAO fork stayed on their paths and went on to call it "Ethereum Classic". As for gas prices: https://l2fees.info/ https://l2fees.info/ will show you that transfers can easily be done with a few cents, and Raiden is (finally!) live and able to do sub-cent transactions (https://medium.com/raiden-network/the-raiden-network-now-live-on-arbitrum-3d57fedf7961 https://medium.com/raiden-network/the-raiden-network-now-liv...)

by lvass 4y ago

vorpalhex 4y ago

How many crypto breaches have there been this year alone again? If hundreds of millions of dollars can be lost by professional crypto firms employing crypto engineers, what hope do Bob and Sally have?

lvass 4y ago
Apples and oranges comparison. How many of those breaches were from people who stored their keys safely and didn't interact with smart contracts? That's something a person is able to do. Guaranteeing your fiat is safe in some places is simply impossible.
- sp332 4y ago
  Actually if someone fraudulently removes money from my bank account, I am not liable for the loss. Protections with credit cards are even stronger.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- mvc 4y ago
  I was subject of an exceedingly well timed and executed email phishing attack which convinced me to use my online banking system to deposit 100k into the attackers account. Got the money back in full. God bless the fiat system.
bavell 4y ago
> If hundreds of millions of dollars can be lost by professional crypto firms employing crypto engineers, what hope do Bob and Sally have? Haha I'm pretty pro-crypto but "professional crypto firms" almost sounds like an oxymoron... All Bob and Sally have to do is use a private wallet and store their private keys with redundant backups. Not foolproof but pretty straightforward. The engineers running the exchanges, markets, etc have way more attack vectors and pitfalls to worry about.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  And how do Bob and Sally use their totally offline cold storage for.. uh.. anything other than paperweights? Oh, right, they need to unfreeze the wallet using something like metamask and then execute a transfer, running against a service they can't audit... and hope there are no scams in that process, and that metamask isn't vulnerable, and that they only click the right authorization prompts.. Of course this assumes they aren't transferring from a known terrorist or a company ignoring KYC laws which might also land them in hot water.

nick238 4y ago

That's great, but how do I sell a $2 candy bar to someone and not have to charge them a $2 transaction fee (or $20 if there's a gas war), and also make sure their transaction actually goes through. With crypto you still need to trust someone: the blockchain owners, as they can always do a rollback at any time, as happened with the DAO.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> With crypto you still need to trust someone: Yes, but the people you need to trust are self-selected, anonymous, distributed, and unaccountable, which is, apparently, better somehow.
- notahacker 4y ago
  And for the majority of real world transactions, you still have to trust "fiat" gateways at either end anyway...
danlugo92 4y ago
Use bitcoin lightning
rglullis 4y ago
There are no blockchain owners. There is just a blockchain, and consensus rules to what goes into it. People talk about the DAO thing as if it was just a matter of calling some people and ask them to refund everyone, as if history could be reversed. What happened was a fork, and the decision on what fork to go on still required consensus building: those running ethereum nodes and who were against the DAO fork stayed on their paths and went on to call it "Ethereum Classic". As for gas prices: https://l2fees.info/ https://l2fees.info/ will show you that transfers can easily be done with a few cents, and Raiden is (finally!) live and able to do sub-cent transactions (https://medium.com/raiden-network/the-raiden-network-now-live-on-arbitrum-3d57fedf7961 https://medium.com/raiden-network/the-raiden-network-now-liv...)