6 ms·

Incredibly common on a certain LatAm fintech/marketplace as well. A lot of people with suspended accounts with funds, nonexistent support. This is why crypto un

by lvass 4y ago

Incredibly common on a certain LatAm fintech/marketplace as well. A lot of people with suspended accounts with funds, nonexistent support. This is why crypto unfortunately makes a lot of sense, not that it should, but it often does feel safer, specially in the third world.

cowpig 4y ago
> crypto > safer ?????
- donkarma 4y ago
  would love to know how you could practically chargeback someone's bitcoin after you send it to them
- lvass 4y ago
  I guess that's a normal reaction when your money feels untouchable, almost sacred, stored in the world's reserve currency in one of the largest institutions. Digital money is no man's land (and unbearably inflationary) in some parts of the world, with crypto you can just actually take care of your damn keys and don't depend on trusting someone suspicious.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    How many crypto breaches have there been this year alone again? If hundreds of millions of dollars can be lost by professional crypto firms employing crypto engineers, what hope do Bob and Sally have?
    - lvass 4y ago
      Apples and oranges comparison. How many of those breaches were from people who stored their keys safely and didn't interact with smart contracts? That's something a person is able to do. Guaranteeing your fiat is safe in some places is simply impossible.
      - sp332 4y ago
        Actually if someone fraudulently removes money from my bank account, I am not liable for the loss. Protections with credit cards are even stronger.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - mvc 4y ago
        I was subject of an exceedingly well timed and executed email phishing attack which convinced me to use my online banking system to deposit 100k into the attackers account. Got the money back in full. God bless the fiat system.
    - bavell 4y ago
      > If hundreds of millions of dollars can be lost by professional crypto firms employing crypto engineers, what hope do Bob and Sally have? Haha I'm pretty pro-crypto but "professional crypto firms" almost sounds like an oxymoron... All Bob and Sally have to do is use a private wallet and store their private keys with redundant backups. Not foolproof but pretty straightforward. The engineers running the exchanges, markets, etc have way more attack vectors and pitfalls to worry about.
      - vorpalhex 4y ago
        And how do Bob and Sally use their totally offline cold storage for.. uh.. anything other than paperweights? Oh, right, they need to unfreeze the wallet using something like metamask and then execute a transfer, running against a service they can't audit... and hope there are no scams in that process, and that metamask isn't vulnerable, and that they only click the right authorization prompts.. Of course this assumes they aren't transferring from a known terrorist or a company ignoring KYC laws which might also land them in hot water.
  - nick238 4y ago
    That's great, but how do I sell a $2 candy bar to someone and not have to charge them a $2 transaction fee (or $20 if there's a gas war), and also make sure their transaction actually goes through. With crypto you still need to trust someone: the blockchain owners, as they can always do a rollback at any time, as happened with the DAO.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > With crypto you still need to trust someone: Yes, but the people you need to trust are self-selected, anonymous, distributed, and unaccountable, which is, apparently, better somehow.
      - notahacker 4y ago
        And for the majority of real world transactions, you still have to trust "fiat" gateways at either end anyway...
    - danlugo92 4y ago
      Use bitcoin lightning
    - rglullis 4y ago
      There are no blockchain owners. There is just a blockchain, and consensus rules to what goes into it. People talk about the DAO thing as if it was just a matter of calling some people and ask them to refund everyone, as if history could be reversed. What happened was a fork, and the decision on what fork to go on still required consensus building: those running ethereum nodes and who were against the DAO fork stayed on their paths and went on to call it "Ethereum Classic". As for gas prices: https://l2fees.info/ https://l2fees.info/ will show you that transfers can easily be done with a few cents, and Raiden is (finally!) live and able to do sub-cent transactions (https://medium.com/raiden-network/the-raiden-network-now-live-on-arbitrum-3d57fedf7961 https://medium.com/raiden-network/the-raiden-network-now-liv...)
KineticArms 4y ago
"a certain ..." I hate when people do this, just say it.
- lvass 4y ago
  Mercadolibre/Mercadopago.
nawgz 4y ago
> crypto makes sense Does it? You have the technical hurdle of securing your own wallet, the technisocial challenges of constant scams, the inability to exchange to and from fiat without major, centralized, unregulated exchanges, and even worse than inflation a completely random value story which is somehow "inexplicably" also tied to the fortunes of the markets. Should you try to work around some of these risks by just using an exchange, you're equally finagled in fintech, and overall I just find it impossibly hard to imagine crypto is actually saving anyone from brutal financial conditions in spite of all these claims.
jagger27 4y ago
Escrow. You're talking about escrow.

by lvass 4y ago

cowpig 4y ago

> crypto > safer ?????

donkarma 4y ago
would love to know how you could practically chargeback someone's bitcoin after you send it to them
lvass 4y ago
I guess that's a normal reaction when your money feels untouchable, almost sacred, stored in the world's reserve currency in one of the largest institutions. Digital money is no man's land (and unbearably inflationary) in some parts of the world, with crypto you can just actually take care of your damn keys and don't depend on trusting someone suspicious.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  How many crypto breaches have there been this year alone again? If hundreds of millions of dollars can be lost by professional crypto firms employing crypto engineers, what hope do Bob and Sally have?
  - lvass 4y ago
    Apples and oranges comparison. How many of those breaches were from people who stored their keys safely and didn't interact with smart contracts? That's something a person is able to do. Guaranteeing your fiat is safe in some places is simply impossible.
    - sp332 4y ago
      Actually if someone fraudulently removes money from my bank account, I am not liable for the loss. Protections with credit cards are even stronger.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - mvc 4y ago
      I was subject of an exceedingly well timed and executed email phishing attack which convinced me to use my online banking system to deposit 100k into the attackers account. Got the money back in full. God bless the fiat system.
  - bavell 4y ago
    > If hundreds of millions of dollars can be lost by professional crypto firms employing crypto engineers, what hope do Bob and Sally have? Haha I'm pretty pro-crypto but "professional crypto firms" almost sounds like an oxymoron... All Bob and Sally have to do is use a private wallet and store their private keys with redundant backups. Not foolproof but pretty straightforward. The engineers running the exchanges, markets, etc have way more attack vectors and pitfalls to worry about.
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      And how do Bob and Sally use their totally offline cold storage for.. uh.. anything other than paperweights? Oh, right, they need to unfreeze the wallet using something like metamask and then execute a transfer, running against a service they can't audit... and hope there are no scams in that process, and that metamask isn't vulnerable, and that they only click the right authorization prompts.. Of course this assumes they aren't transferring from a known terrorist or a company ignoring KYC laws which might also land them in hot water.
- nick238 4y ago
  That's great, but how do I sell a $2 candy bar to someone and not have to charge them a $2 transaction fee (or $20 if there's a gas war), and also make sure their transaction actually goes through. With crypto you still need to trust someone: the blockchain owners, as they can always do a rollback at any time, as happened with the DAO.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > With crypto you still need to trust someone: Yes, but the people you need to trust are self-selected, anonymous, distributed, and unaccountable, which is, apparently, better somehow.
    - notahacker 4y ago
      And for the majority of real world transactions, you still have to trust "fiat" gateways at either end anyway...
  - danlugo92 4y ago
    Use bitcoin lightning
  - rglullis 4y ago
    There are no blockchain owners. There is just a blockchain, and consensus rules to what goes into it. People talk about the DAO thing as if it was just a matter of calling some people and ask them to refund everyone, as if history could be reversed. What happened was a fork, and the decision on what fork to go on still required consensus building: those running ethereum nodes and who were against the DAO fork stayed on their paths and went on to call it "Ethereum Classic". As for gas prices: https://l2fees.info/ https://l2fees.info/ will show you that transfers can easily be done with a few cents, and Raiden is (finally!) live and able to do sub-cent transactions (https://medium.com/raiden-network/the-raiden-network-now-live-on-arbitrum-3d57fedf7961 https://medium.com/raiden-network/the-raiden-network-now-liv...)

KineticArms 4y ago

"a certain ..." I hate when people do this, just say it.

lvass 4y ago
Mercadolibre/Mercadopago.

nawgz 4y ago

> crypto makes sense Does it? You have the technical hurdle of securing your own wallet, the technisocial challenges of constant scams, the inability to exchange to and from fiat without major, centralized, unregulated exchanges, and even worse than inflation a completely random value story which is somehow "inexplicably" also tied to the fortunes of the markets. Should you try to work around some of these risks by just using an exchange, you're equally finagled in fintech, and overall I just find it impossibly hard to imagine crypto is actually saving anyone from brutal financial conditions in spite of all these claims.

jagger27 4y ago

Escrow. You're talking about escrow.