4 ms·

That does beg an interesting thought experiment though: what would that school look like if everything had to be done by the students. Less professoring and upp

That does beg an interesting thought experiment though: what would that school look like if everything had to be done by the students. Less professoring and upper managerial responsibilities? Make the business students hash out contracts with vendors, IT students handle the networking, mechanical engineers the boilers, hospitality management majors dorm maintenance, and so on and so forth. Something like 15-20 hrs/week, plus 20-30 over the summer from every student is a lot of manpower. Albeit very ill trained/inexperienced manpower. That said University's don't exactly make an external product to sell, so some money would need to flow inwards from grants or otherwise for salaries and capital expenditure.

supernova87a 4y ago
As you hint at, I think you would quickly find that the university would look like it's run by a bunch of slumlords, with things falling apart, and no one responding when the toilet gets clogged or the wifi goes down.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  Why is it that people think it's okay to give 18 year old a machinegun and a granade and to send them to kill, or trust them with a 40 ton vehicle, but they can't be trusted at basic everyday life? Even teenagers are perfectly capable of most administrative tasks. People rise to the challange, if the environment is right
  - ModernMech 4y ago
    I don’t think many people who run universities are the same who think it’s okay to send kids into war. The people making the laws and starting the wars which necessitate giving 18 year olds machine guns are not actually interacting with or involved in the lives and development of those same 18 year olds. Why would I spend so much time educating these kids if I thought its okay that we blow that all up literally? I think the point is not that people don’t rise to challenges, but that the ones who do graduate quickly thereafter. I can turn an 18 year old into a competent roboticist in 4 years, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t completely lost and making very costly mistakes for a good portion of that time.
  - InitialLastName 4y ago
    They don't trust 18-year-olds to tell the people with guns who to shoot at, or where to drive the trucks, though. Anyone who has operated in a student-run organization will tell you that when you're doing anything complicated (like managing a college IT department), the ~4-year limit on institutional memory is a serious issue, especially when it involves people who mostly don't have the experience to be proactive about documentation (and, I should note, institutional documentation is not an easy problem for organizations filled with seasoned professionals).
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      'They don't trust 18-year-olds to tell the people with guns who to shoot at, or where to drive the trucks' Both soldiers and drivers can be alone for hours and sometimes have to make life-or-death decisions during that time.
  - supernova87a 4y ago
    You're confusing the issue. Soldiers, even 18 year old ones, are doing that as their profession full time and trained to do so. (aside from the overall question on whether it's good to be having kids trained to kill). Students are students. Their job is to be students, not administrators or full time workers. That's why things run and maintained by students typically don't have the follow through and professionalism of people who are paid to do it.
elihu 4y ago
I think for that to work you'd either need some sort of "perpetual students" who hang around a long time, or a reasonable percentage of people enrolling later in life than is typical (and possibly even enrolling as a student after earning a degree elsewhere).
- ModernMech 4y ago
  > you'd either need some sort of "perpetual students" who hang around a long time We have this. They’re called grad students and if they hang around long enough we call them professors.
throwawaygh 4y ago
Have you ever managed an intern? Inexperienced labor often has negative value-add. > Make the business students hash out contracts with vendors A second semester senior without a job lined up negotiating a seven figure contract... what could go wrong? > IT students handle the networking This is already a thing at most colleges. > mechanical engineers the boilers Might be possible, but could also be a disaster. > hospitality management majors dorm maintenance Students already do work in dorms at front desks and so on. Business majors aren't qualified to do plumbing, electrical, etc. Students who are qualified to do plumbing and electrical are probably better off selling that labor on the open market. At the end of the day, the other basic problem is that at most colleges, most college students who need work can get better-paying work than the sort of work that's available on campus. Why work in Uni IT over the summer if you can get an internship literally anywhere else that probably pays better and could become a full time job?

supernova87a 4y ago

As you hint at, I think you would quickly find that the university would look like it's run by a bunch of slumlords, with things falling apart, and no one responding when the toilet gets clogged or the wifi goes down.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
Why is it that people think it's okay to give 18 year old a machinegun and a granade and to send them to kill, or trust them with a 40 ton vehicle, but they can't be trusted at basic everyday life? Even teenagers are perfectly capable of most administrative tasks. People rise to the challange, if the environment is right
- ModernMech 4y ago
  I don’t think many people who run universities are the same who think it’s okay to send kids into war. The people making the laws and starting the wars which necessitate giving 18 year olds machine guns are not actually interacting with or involved in the lives and development of those same 18 year olds. Why would I spend so much time educating these kids if I thought its okay that we blow that all up literally? I think the point is not that people don’t rise to challenges, but that the ones who do graduate quickly thereafter. I can turn an 18 year old into a competent roboticist in 4 years, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t completely lost and making very costly mistakes for a good portion of that time.
- InitialLastName 4y ago
  They don't trust 18-year-olds to tell the people with guns who to shoot at, or where to drive the trucks, though. Anyone who has operated in a student-run organization will tell you that when you're doing anything complicated (like managing a college IT department), the ~4-year limit on institutional memory is a serious issue, especially when it involves people who mostly don't have the experience to be proactive about documentation (and, I should note, institutional documentation is not an easy problem for organizations filled with seasoned professionals).
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    'They don't trust 18-year-olds to tell the people with guns who to shoot at, or where to drive the trucks' Both soldiers and drivers can be alone for hours and sometimes have to make life-or-death decisions during that time.
- supernova87a 4y ago
  You're confusing the issue. Soldiers, even 18 year old ones, are doing that as their profession full time and trained to do so. (aside from the overall question on whether it's good to be having kids trained to kill). Students are students. Their job is to be students, not administrators or full time workers. That's why things run and maintained by students typically don't have the follow through and professionalism of people who are paid to do it.

elihu 4y ago

I think for that to work you'd either need some sort of "perpetual students" who hang around a long time, or a reasonable percentage of people enrolling later in life than is typical (and possibly even enrolling as a student after earning a degree elsewhere).

ModernMech 4y ago
> you'd either need some sort of "perpetual students" who hang around a long time We have this. They’re called grad students and if they hang around long enough we call them professors.

throwawaygh 4y ago

Have you ever managed an intern? Inexperienced labor often has negative value-add. > Make the business students hash out contracts with vendors A second semester senior without a job lined up negotiating a seven figure contract... what could go wrong? > IT students handle the networking This is already a thing at most colleges. > mechanical engineers the boilers Might be possible, but could also be a disaster. > hospitality management majors dorm maintenance Students already do work in dorms at front desks and so on. Business majors aren't qualified to do plumbing, electrical, etc. Students who are qualified to do plumbing and electrical are probably better off selling that labor on the open market. At the end of the day, the other basic problem is that at most colleges, most college students who need work can get better-paying work than the sort of work that's available on campus. Why work in Uni IT over the summer if you can get an internship literally anywhere else that probably pays better and could become a full time job?