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> "Buy now, pay later" isn't a scam. Prime example of the 'I'm not a rent-seeker, I'm a disruptor' if anyone wants to know what it looks like. It is a scam i

> "Buy now, pay later" isn't a scam. Prime example of the 'I'm not a rent-seeker, I'm a disruptor' if anyone wants to know what it looks like. It is a scam if you know you've been bombarding them with algo-targeted ads and have been subjecting them to the endless amount of influencer-porn these kids seemingly cannot do without anymore due to a horrible data driven diet that people who work for FAANG work on almost exclusively. It's a scam, just admit it, we all know what it is: you're targeting people who cannot and will not be able to afford much, and make them think this is what is missing in their life so you can lock them in debt and keep the consumerist cycle going. You're the 21st century perversion of a Marketing con-man, but unlike the 20th century version with all the glamour, sex and booze you guys play fortnite, watch furry porn and get doordash sent to you while you suck on a vape in your empty apartment. The real question is: why do so many think you guys are anything remotely close to being successful? And why does tech seem to set such low standards for what can be construed as success? Next we're going to hear about how Robinhood was the great emancipator of the Millennial and Gen Z, and not really just a front-running racket for hedgefunds, too.

LigmaYC 4y ago
Still not a scam, although I agree that it's not ethical to push this on impressionable kids who would probably choose to go in debt for some new clothes.
- shakna 4y ago
  Whilst it may not strictly be fraud, another common usage of the word 'scam', is 'to deprive of by deceit'. If it's unethical, then it's likely misleading - a form of deceit. You don't necessarily need to meet some legal line for it to be a scam or not. It just needs to be misleading, and capable of causing harm.
  - LigmaYC 4y ago
    But it's not misleading or deceitful.
    - shakna 4y ago
      If it's not misleading, then it wouldn't be impacting "impressionable kids". They're misled to believe that there won't be a negative consequence.
      - LigmaYC 4y ago
        The marketing exists outside of the "buy now, pay later" scheme. "Buy now, pay later" is not a scam.
        shakna 4y ago
        The very phrasing, "buy now, pay later" is predicated upon the implication that it provides a benefit without a negative.
        LigmaYC 4y ago
        Where does it imply a benefit without a negative? The "pay later" part is clearly stated
        shakna 4y ago
        "Pay later" is a benefit, to the audience we're discussing, as it means "not now". Young adults actually have processing problems over impulse control [0], and so cannot see any drawback to "not now" - in fact they likely do not have a way to fully conceptualise that something will occur in the future. All "buy now, pay later" translates to is "instant gratification", nothing further. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964271/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964271/
        LigmaYC 4y ago
        Lacking impulse control does not mean that the entire concept of "pay later" is a scam.
  - baisq 4y ago
    If you sign a contract and then can't abide by the terms of the contract, you haven't been scammed.
    - shakna 4y ago
      This is specifically not the case - loan sharks are frequently punished for creating contracts that are not reasonable, and cannot be upheld by law as it violates consumer protections. One of which is that contracts are required to be reasonably understood by all participating parties.
      - matnewton85 4y ago
        BNPL providers are held to far higher standards than Credit Card, Personal Loan, or Payday Loan companies. I'm not sure I understand the HN addiction to attacking them. Unlike all the examples above, Afterpay doesn't charge interest, has capped late payment fees, and has a very low debt ceiling. It's the perfect way for younger people to learn how to manage debt.
        shakna 4y ago
        If a young person is learning to manage debt with them, that necessarily implies that they don't yet comprehend what taking debt means and cannot reasonably be expected to fully understand the consequences - which may make the contract invalid.
        LigmaYC 4y ago
        This definitely isn't enough to make the contract invalid, however you could prove every BNBL business wrong and put them out of business if you find a court that agrees with you.

LigmaYC 4y ago

Still not a scam, although I agree that it's not ethical to push this on impressionable kids who would probably choose to go in debt for some new clothes.

shakna 4y ago
Whilst it may not strictly be fraud, another common usage of the word 'scam', is 'to deprive of by deceit'. If it's unethical, then it's likely misleading - a form of deceit. You don't necessarily need to meet some legal line for it to be a scam or not. It just needs to be misleading, and capable of causing harm.
- LigmaYC 4y ago
  But it's not misleading or deceitful.
  - shakna 4y ago
    If it's not misleading, then it wouldn't be impacting "impressionable kids". They're misled to believe that there won't be a negative consequence.
    - LigmaYC 4y ago
      The marketing exists outside of the "buy now, pay later" scheme. "Buy now, pay later" is not a scam.
      - shakna 4y ago
        The very phrasing, "buy now, pay later" is predicated upon the implication that it provides a benefit without a negative.
        LigmaYC 4y ago
        Where does it imply a benefit without a negative? The "pay later" part is clearly stated
        shakna 4y ago
        "Pay later" is a benefit, to the audience we're discussing, as it means "not now". Young adults actually have processing problems over impulse control [0], and so cannot see any drawback to "not now" - in fact they likely do not have a way to fully conceptualise that something will occur in the future. All "buy now, pay later" translates to is "instant gratification", nothing further. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964271/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964271/
        LigmaYC 4y ago
        Lacking impulse control does not mean that the entire concept of "pay later" is a scam.
- baisq 4y ago
  If you sign a contract and then can't abide by the terms of the contract, you haven't been scammed.
  - shakna 4y ago
    This is specifically not the case - loan sharks are frequently punished for creating contracts that are not reasonable, and cannot be upheld by law as it violates consumer protections. One of which is that contracts are required to be reasonably understood by all participating parties.
    - matnewton85 4y ago
      BNPL providers are held to far higher standards than Credit Card, Personal Loan, or Payday Loan companies. I'm not sure I understand the HN addiction to attacking them. Unlike all the examples above, Afterpay doesn't charge interest, has capped late payment fees, and has a very low debt ceiling. It's the perfect way for younger people to learn how to manage debt.
      - shakna 4y ago
        If a young person is learning to manage debt with them, that necessarily implies that they don't yet comprehend what taking debt means and cannot reasonably be expected to fully understand the consequences - which may make the contract invalid.
        LigmaYC 4y ago
        This definitely isn't enough to make the contract invalid, however you could prove every BNBL business wrong and put them out of business if you find a court that agrees with you.