6 ms·

This is addressing the wrong problem, at least in my view. I don't really care about what Facebook does with the data I consciously give them. And ads are just

by Wilya 15y ago

This is addressing the wrong problem, at least in my view. I don't really care about what Facebook does with the data I consciously give them. And ads are just an side-effect. My main problem is that they actively try to get their hands on data I don't want to give them. Like, my constantly actualized GPS coordinates, or my browsing history. And that they store it. And process it. And store me into some kind of box. Oh, and it candidly considers that Facebook, or any other person to whom it sells the data, won't do anything nasty with it. Just serving ads might be okay. But ultimately, they could do much more. Do you want to know who the gay people are around you ? We could sell you that list ! Do you want to know who votes for your opponent ? We could sell you that list ! And so on. The day Facebook, or Google, or anyone with a comparable database actually decides to do something evil, it will look ugly. Will they ? Don't know. Don't want to find out. As a side note, I might pay for Facebook. Or I might have paid. Now, they will just get my money and sell my data anyway, so why bother ?

deleted 15y ago
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sixtofour 15y ago
"The day Facebook, or Google, or anyone actually decides to do something evil, it will look ugly. Will they ? Don't know. Don't want to find out." Yes, they will. And when they do, it won't be evil, it'll just be business. Which is evil.
deleted 15y ago
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bnegreve 15y ago
> The day Facebook, or Google, or anyone actually decides to do something evil, it will look ugly. Will they ? Don't know. Even if they don't they can get hacked (c.f. psn). This is the worst problem IMO.
- slowpoke 15y ago
  > they can get hacked To elaborate on this a bit, it might not even be necessary for them to get hacked from the outside. It's certainly not impossible for a malicious Google or Facebook employee to acquire (and sell) data.
  - danmaz74 15y ago
    In Italy we had a pretty big scandal because people working with the main telecom operator sold a lot of calls data to businesses, lobbyists and such. This is a very concrete risk.
  - lawnchair_larry 15y ago
    There are public cases of this happening with both Google and Facebook. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/google-spy/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/google-spy/ http://gawker.com/5445592/why-you-shouldnt-trust-facebook-with-your-data-an-employees-revelations http://gawker.com/5445592/why-you-shouldnt-trust-facebook-wi...
bad_user 15y ago
I also hate the tagging. For instance you do not usually opt-in to a group by yourself. Instead somebody else includes you in that group, without your permission. This is bad because opt-out of a group is an explicit statement that you don't want to be in that group, versus just ignoring a request which could just say that you don't have the time for that or you missed the invitation ... and people know you in those groups and opting-out is just rude. This is not how real-life works btw. I also got tagged several times in pictures that I do not like. Those pictures automatically appeared right on my "enhanced" profile page. When I untagged myself the person that did it thought it was some kind of technical problem and tagged me again. Then I untagged myself again, and got tagged again. Then I told that person that I don't like that picture and she got upset. I don't want other people tagging me - I want to tag myself in pictures that I approve of and this is something that Facebook won't allow me to do. And talk about automatic tagging -- fortunately Facebook allows me to deactivate automatic tagging (for now), but this feature is just plain evil IMHO, as it encourages people to tag other people, even though that's not something they really want to do. This list could go on and on and yet Facebook provides no means for me to automatically download the contact details of my friends. How fucked up is that? These are my friends, and many of them I invited to Facebook myself. Basically these days I'm only using Facebook when I want to get in touch with somebody and I have no other way at my disposal OR if I want to spam people I don't care about ... but the real social networking that I'm doing these days is through my phone or through my email address.
- drcube 15y ago
  There is a privacy setting forcing all tag requests to come to you for approval first. Obviously it isn't easy to discover, however.
  - RexRollman 15y ago
    Lot of things are hard to find (like deleting your account). And there is the issue of Facebook periodically changing the settings, knowing that meaning people won't bother figuring out what the changes mean and how it effects them.
drcube 15y ago
And don't forget, due to the PATRIOT act, simply having that information obligates facebook to serve it up to law enforcement without a warrant any time they ask. Think about that next time you "like" the High Times fan page or post "I'm gonna get crunk!" some Friday night. Facebook itself may be pure as the driven snow, but I can guarantee the FBI is NOT.
- nl 15y ago
  And don't forget, due to the PATRIOT act, simply having that information obligates facebook to serve it up to law enforcement without a warrant any time they ask. Citation needed (Especially for the obligates part). If Google requires a warrant to share data then please explain why Facebook is obligated to do differently?
  - drcube 15y ago
    "A National Security Letter (NSL) is a form of administrative subpoena used by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation and reportedly by other U.S. Government Agencies including the Central Intelligence Agency and the Department of Defense. They require no probable cause or judicial oversight. An NSL is a demand letter issued to a particular entity or organization to turn over various record and data pertaining to individuals." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter Also: "Note: According to facebook’s privacy policy, messages on facebook can not be deleted anymore. If you click on ‘delete’ the messages will only be invisible to you. US law enforcement agencies can access this information at their own liking, without judicial review." http://europe-v-facebook.org/EN/Data_Pool/data_pool.html#Messages http://europe-v-facebook.org/EN/Data_Pool/data_pool.html#Mes...
gldalmaso 15y ago
To complement your point and quoting from the link: > The information isn't viewed by humans (not in an identifiable way) That is until someone wants to actively query it, then it can be made human-friendly, and like you said, we don't really know just what details they are storing and how they are profiling us. It doesn't ever escape my mind that whichever country I live could just well suddenly suffer from a state coup (or in some cases are already under dictatorships) and right then I could become a political target for the sum of all my recent activity. Right now I'm living in a democratic state and have my civil rights, and so I act accordingly. But that's all stored somewhere and if things change, the state can simply gunpoint a service and have them disclose all my personnal data. Said service doesn't even need to have a secret agenda for my info, but they are its holders so they might be targeted. That also brings a different point which is the security in which my information is being held. Can a big service like Facebook's or Google's be hacked? It most surely can. And then, just how much data will be compromised before it's in the wrong hands. Cyberwarfare is here.

by Wilya 15y ago

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

sixtofour 15y ago

"The day Facebook, or Google, or anyone actually decides to do something evil, it will look ugly. Will they ? Don't know. Don't want to find out." Yes, they will. And when they do, it won't be evil, it'll just be business. Which is evil.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

bnegreve 15y ago

> The day Facebook, or Google, or anyone actually decides to do something evil, it will look ugly. Will they ? Don't know. Even if they don't they can get hacked (c.f. psn). This is the worst problem IMO.

slowpoke 15y ago
> they can get hacked To elaborate on this a bit, it might not even be necessary for them to get hacked from the outside. It's certainly not impossible for a malicious Google or Facebook employee to acquire (and sell) data.
- danmaz74 15y ago
  In Italy we had a pretty big scandal because people working with the main telecom operator sold a lot of calls data to businesses, lobbyists and such. This is a very concrete risk.
- lawnchair_larry 15y ago
  There are public cases of this happening with both Google and Facebook. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/google-spy/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/google-spy/ http://gawker.com/5445592/why-you-shouldnt-trust-facebook-with-your-data-an-employees-revelations http://gawker.com/5445592/why-you-shouldnt-trust-facebook-wi...

bad_user 15y ago

I also hate the tagging. For instance you do not usually opt-in to a group by yourself. Instead somebody else includes you in that group, without your permission. This is bad because opt-out of a group is an explicit statement that you don't want to be in that group, versus just ignoring a request which could just say that you don't have the time for that or you missed the invitation ... and people know you in those groups and opting-out is just rude. This is not how real-life works btw. I also got tagged several times in pictures that I do not like. Those pictures automatically appeared right on my "enhanced" profile page. When I untagged myself the person that did it thought it was some kind of technical problem and tagged me again. Then I untagged myself again, and got tagged again. Then I told that person that I don't like that picture and she got upset. I don't want other people tagging me - I want to tag myself in pictures that I approve of and this is something that Facebook won't allow me to do. And talk about automatic tagging -- fortunately Facebook allows me to deactivate automatic tagging (for now), but this feature is just plain evil IMHO, as it encourages people to tag other people, even though that's not something they really want to do. This list could go on and on and yet Facebook provides no means for me to automatically download the contact details of my friends. How fucked up is that? These are my friends, and many of them I invited to Facebook myself. Basically these days I'm only using Facebook when I want to get in touch with somebody and I have no other way at my disposal OR if I want to spam people I don't care about ... but the real social networking that I'm doing these days is through my phone or through my email address.

drcube 15y ago
There is a privacy setting forcing all tag requests to come to you for approval first. Obviously it isn't easy to discover, however.
- RexRollman 15y ago
  Lot of things are hard to find (like deleting your account). And there is the issue of Facebook periodically changing the settings, knowing that meaning people won't bother figuring out what the changes mean and how it effects them.

drcube 15y ago

And don't forget, due to the PATRIOT act, simply having that information obligates facebook to serve it up to law enforcement without a warrant any time they ask. Think about that next time you "like" the High Times fan page or post "I'm gonna get crunk!" some Friday night. Facebook itself may be pure as the driven snow, but I can guarantee the FBI is NOT.

nl 15y ago
And don't forget, due to the PATRIOT act, simply having that information obligates facebook to serve it up to law enforcement without a warrant any time they ask. Citation needed (Especially for the obligates part). If Google requires a warrant to share data then please explain why Facebook is obligated to do differently?
- drcube 15y ago
  "A National Security Letter (NSL) is a form of administrative subpoena used by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation and reportedly by other U.S. Government Agencies including the Central Intelligence Agency and the Department of Defense. They require no probable cause or judicial oversight. An NSL is a demand letter issued to a particular entity or organization to turn over various record and data pertaining to individuals." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter Also: "Note: According to facebook’s privacy policy, messages on facebook can not be deleted anymore. If you click on ‘delete’ the messages will only be invisible to you. US law enforcement agencies can access this information at their own liking, without judicial review." http://europe-v-facebook.org/EN/Data_Pool/data_pool.html#Messages http://europe-v-facebook.org/EN/Data_Pool/data_pool.html#Mes...

gldalmaso 15y ago

To complement your point and quoting from the link: > The information isn't viewed by humans (not in an identifiable way) That is until someone wants to actively query it, then it can be made human-friendly, and like you said, we don't really know just what details they are storing and how they are profiling us. It doesn't ever escape my mind that whichever country I live could just well suddenly suffer from a state coup (or in some cases are already under dictatorships) and right then I could become a political target for the sum of all my recent activity. Right now I'm living in a democratic state and have my civil rights, and so I act accordingly. But that's all stored somewhere and if things change, the state can simply gunpoint a service and have them disclose all my personnal data. Said service doesn't even need to have a secret agenda for my info, but they are its holders so they might be targeted. That also brings a different point which is the security in which my information is being held. Can a big service like Facebook's or Google's be hacked? It most surely can. And then, just how much data will be compromised before it's in the wrong hands. Cyberwarfare is here.