5 ms·

Going to be honest, this sounds like horsesh!t. In my entire life, meeting people from all walks of life (including people I vehemently disagree with, and some

by LightG 4y ago

Going to be honest, this sounds like horsesh!t. In my entire life, meeting people from all walks of life (including people I vehemently disagree with, and some I would almost consider enemies, and even some zen Buddhists), when it came to the crunch, I know they/we would all have run towards an emergency as humans/neighbours. On the other hand, let me assume it's true, then it isn't representative IME.

TheDong 4y ago
Have you lived in a large city with a very apparent homelessness crisis, such as san francisco? The homeless in places like SF are routinely experiencing serious emergencies, invariably need money and shelter, and are passed by tens of thousands of people each day who have the abilities to help them. Of those tens of thousands of people who pass a homeless person who's clearly in need of help, perhaps 100 will give them some money, perhaps 5 will pause to ask if they can help, and perhaps 1 will actually take a not-insignificant amount of time to try and assist them. These numbers are certainly not perfectly accurate, but from the people-watching I've done in the bay area, I can easily and confidently say that the average response to a stranger who has the class-signifiers of being homeless, even if that person appears to be having a seizure or other crisis, is to ignore them entirely. I think my observations align closely with the parent comment's observation, and I absolutely believe it is representative of the people who go to meditation courses in the bay area.
- LightG 4y ago
  First question: Yes. The rest: conflation.
  - haswell 4y ago
    > The rest: conflation. Conflation with what?
    - LightG 4y ago
      As above ... The major issue raised here (mindfulness and selfishness in general, etc) with SF homelessness and peoples response to it.
      - neltnerb 4y ago
        It was a story that happened in San Francisco, I don't know what else to tell you. You can't decouple homelessness from the reasons why you might need to help someone in an emergency in that city. Draw what lessons you will, or tell me that I'm making it up wholesale if you seriously think it's implausible if you feel the need. All I can say is that it happened and stood out as particularly strange to me. I didn't take cell phone video to prove it six years later to a stranger on the internet, I just wanted to know who to contact for help in an unfamiliar neighborhood and city. What I took from the situation was that if you're going to seriously practice compassion in meditation it needs to also be coupled with action or else you end up getting disconnected and numb to the world around you. I don't blame anyone for their responses, and definitely don't judge them as bad people or anything. We're all human and the best of us are open-minded enough to our failings to improve. I'm saying that if you're going to practice "feeling compassion" you should also practice acting on it. Otherwise when you need to act you will freeze. Acting on compassion is a reflex, a habit, a muscle that needs development as much as the ability to accept that you aren't perfect.
- KerrAvon 4y ago
  I’m not a fan of SF particularly, and there are some problems unique to it, but my experience has been that individuals treating the homeless as invisible non-persons is pretty universal. Have you observed this to be different elsewhere in some large city?

by LightG 4y ago

TheDong 4y ago

Have you lived in a large city with a very apparent homelessness crisis, such as san francisco? The homeless in places like SF are routinely experiencing serious emergencies, invariably need money and shelter, and are passed by tens of thousands of people each day who have the abilities to help them. Of those tens of thousands of people who pass a homeless person who's clearly in need of help, perhaps 100 will give them some money, perhaps 5 will pause to ask if they can help, and perhaps 1 will actually take a not-insignificant amount of time to try and assist them. These numbers are certainly not perfectly accurate, but from the people-watching I've done in the bay area, I can easily and confidently say that the average response to a stranger who has the class-signifiers of being homeless, even if that person appears to be having a seizure or other crisis, is to ignore them entirely. I think my observations align closely with the parent comment's observation, and I absolutely believe it is representative of the people who go to meditation courses in the bay area.

LightG 4y ago
First question: Yes. The rest: conflation.
- haswell 4y ago
  > The rest: conflation. Conflation with what?
  - LightG 4y ago
    As above ... The major issue raised here (mindfulness and selfishness in general, etc) with SF homelessness and peoples response to it.
    - neltnerb 4y ago
      It was a story that happened in San Francisco, I don't know what else to tell you. You can't decouple homelessness from the reasons why you might need to help someone in an emergency in that city. Draw what lessons you will, or tell me that I'm making it up wholesale if you seriously think it's implausible if you feel the need. All I can say is that it happened and stood out as particularly strange to me. I didn't take cell phone video to prove it six years later to a stranger on the internet, I just wanted to know who to contact for help in an unfamiliar neighborhood and city. What I took from the situation was that if you're going to seriously practice compassion in meditation it needs to also be coupled with action or else you end up getting disconnected and numb to the world around you. I don't blame anyone for their responses, and definitely don't judge them as bad people or anything. We're all human and the best of us are open-minded enough to our failings to improve. I'm saying that if you're going to practice "feeling compassion" you should also practice acting on it. Otherwise when you need to act you will freeze. Acting on compassion is a reflex, a habit, a muscle that needs development as much as the ability to accept that you aren't perfect.
KerrAvon 4y ago
I’m not a fan of SF particularly, and there are some problems unique to it, but my experience has been that individuals treating the homeless as invisible non-persons is pretty universal. Have you observed this to be different elsewhere in some large city?