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Well not that I live in a bad neighborhood or anything like that, but you really don't know what could happen at any given moment, and need to phone emergency s

Well not that I live in a bad neighborhood or anything like that, but you really don't know what could happen at any given moment, and need to phone emergency services. This is not paranoia (well maybe it is), but paranoia doesn't work retroactively, you have to be proactively paranoid. If you're concerned about privacy buy one of those cheap Nokia dumbphones that old people use. Keep your smartphone at home, and swap out the SIM from the dumbphone to your smartphone if your threat model requires you to.

aiisjustanif 4y ago
> but you really don't know what could happen at any given moment, and need to phone emergency services. This is not paranoia (well maybe it is), but paranoia doesn't work retroactively, you have to be proactively paranoid. It would be nice to not live that way sometimes you know? There are places where people aren’t conditioned to feel that way.
- evilduck 4y ago
  You make it sound sinister like you’re expecting to be mugged, but I’ve called 911 on behalf of others by being the first to come across their roadside accident 2 different times in my life, and the first one wouldn’t have been able to call themselves due to injuries. Not having a phone would have meant leaving the scenes, driving to the next exit and finding a gas station or house, explaining there was an accident and pleading to use the phone, drawing out their time sitting injured on the roadside by several minutes before emergency services were even notified. I’ve also been the first to report tree limbs blocking roads and a water main that burst to non-emergency lines, again expediting services to fix them and reducing inconvenience overall. I’ve never felt like this was some conditioning of paranoia, only that I was enabled to help in ways that I wasn’t able to 20 years ago.
- id 4y ago
  You know, medical emergencies are a thing. You could always come across someone that needs help.
  - varjag 4y ago
    Freak attacks are a thing too. Dumb to go out without concealed gun.
    - seattle_spring 4y ago
      That's about as relevant as claiming you should carry rattlesnake antivenom because you might come across someone recently bit.
      - varjag 4y ago
        Well exactly. Same goes for cellphones, with a slightly better probability.
- karencarits 4y ago
  You could read his post as him living with constant threats of victimization (this is how I read your comment) but it applies equally well to medical emergencies. I happened to be in such a situation once and it was stressful enough with medical guidance on the phone and assurances that the ambulance was on its way I will not risk to have to face such a situation alone or have to leave a person in distress just to call for help
- hooande 4y ago
  I always bring my phone in case I'm in a traffic accident and need to call someone to pick me up or let them know I'm going to the hospital
  - mashtastic 4y ago
    I understand how annoying stalking on the HN forum must be — I have literally 1 question about YC application (it's NOT "Can you revise the whole thing?") would be insanely forever grateful if you'd come down and talk to me NB my email is in profile
quantified 4y ago
Pre-phones, it just wasn’t something you thought about. If you came up with a phone, you just may not be able to get it.
- mlyle 4y ago
  Pre-phones, you had functional payphones, etc, around to summon help with. People were more likely to be understanding and to make a call for you if you knocked on their door. I had to hike to a payphone a couple of times when I was stranded. That wouldn't work anymore. To reach the level of security that I had as a teenager, I need a mobile phone.
daniel-cussen 4y ago
There's places where a phone won't help you at all. On the other hand, just screaming will. Screaming, like not yelling, screaming. Helped me out exactly three weeks ago today, when I was getting coercively shepherded by supermarket guards, into the supermarket, because the cashier accused me of not paying. But they weren't interested in seeing my receipt. Just in harassing me. Fortunately Jessica at the Farmacias Manríquez (near Merced and José Miguel de la Barra in downtown Santiago) across the street heard me scream "I want you to call the real cops! You have no right to do this! Look at my receipt!" (in Spanish of course) and called my people, whom I couldn't reach because I left my phone at home. And they showed up, asked what the fuck, and I talked to the lawyer extensively about it, he agreed it was harassment and coercive threats. Who knew, screaming calls attention? And I couldn't use a phone because my hands were full, I was carrying glass bottles home that way because I didn't want to pay for a plastic bag. If I dropped them, they would say since they accused me of stealing them that I destroyed the merchandise and was a thief for sure. And then taken me to the ground and beat me up, that's their job basically. Thanks Jessica of Farmacias Manríquez! So phones? Not always a big help.
- Adraghast 4y ago
  > And I couldn't use a phone because my hands were full Sorry, but you could have used a phone.
- cercatrova 4y ago
  > So phones? Not always a big help. I don't understand how you came to this conclusion when you simultaneously say > [Jessica] called my people, whom I couldn't reach because I left my phone at home If you had a phone, you could've just...called them yourself.
  - loloquwowndueo 4y ago
    Except no because the whole hands full and bottles thing. Did you even bother reading the comment?
    - 4y ago
b112 4y ago
I'm not really blaming you here, this attidue is very normal these days, but a mere 25 years ago, most people had no cell phone, no mobile phone, and never, ever suffered mishap as a result. (Inconvenience is not what I call a mishap) I grew up in the country, and a few times had to walk 20 miles home, due to a dead car. Being a rural area, after 10pm, I might see 1 or 2 cars the entire walk home (4 hours and a bit). During the day, there were times my car broke down, or I ran out of gas, so knocking on doors (a mile or so usually awake) was a better choice. Often, a kind person would have some gas. Compare this to ... the city. If you can yell loudly, literally thousands of people can hear you.
- fao_ 4y ago
  > most people had no cell phone, no mobile phone, and never, ever suffered mishap as a result. never??? How do you possibly have enough information to know that?!
  - b112 4y ago
    Because I said "most people" not "all people".
- cnelsenmilt 4y ago
  25 years ago there was a pay phone in every gas station, and in denser areas in every corner market, bus terminal, grocery store, hotel, ..., not mentioning those installed directly along the street.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    People also didn’t live under the expectation of being reachable 24/7. Similarly, people used paper maps while driving which were cumbersome, but didn’t live under the expectation or the opportunity of traveling to new locations regularly.
    - alar44 4y ago
      Stop. Projecting. I don't know anyone who expects me to be available 24/7. Most people I know text don't text back immediately either. It's a you problem, not a societal one. Set some fucking boundaries and start acting like an adult.
akira2501 4y ago
It's a radio I can use to summon help. Why would I _ever_ want to be without that? Turn the notifications off, or get something like Tasker that can turn them off and on for you on a schedule. Otherwise, keep it in your pocket. This device has no control over you that you don't allow it to have.
- beefield 4y ago
  > It's a radio I can use to summon help. Why would I _ever_ want to be without that? I think it's good for you to occasionally to know that you are on your own. Completely responsible on what you do. Be it on the nearby forest or in some more extreme situation. I am not sure the direction of (illusion of) ultrasafety where our society has been going is all good. Occasionally it's good to have the red pill instead of the blue. Keeps your mind clear.
  - eternityforest 4y ago
    On the other hand, people who don't have the "illusion of ultrasafety" seem to develop a habit of just accepting danger as part of life, to the point of actively speaking out against things like automatic detection for kids left in hot cars. I think the "Blue pill" mindset is more useful overall. The red pill generally does nothing to build a safer world.
    - beefield 4y ago
      You... do understand that the "safest" world literally means you lying in a bombproof vat of fluid with all your sensory input produced virtually so that there is no way you can get into an accident that harms you physically? A safe world is of course nice, i do not deny that. But I see higher goals for our society than that. And pushing the boundaries of our knowledge and understanding of the universe we live in is inherently not safe. I can't honestly say I respect people for choosing the blue pill. However, I very much respect their right to make that choice. I'd also appreciate that blue pillers respected red pillers' right to make their choice and not try to prohibit and demean everything they think looks risky. (obviously, dichotomy is not this strong in the real world)
JohnWhigham 4y ago
What do you imagine people 30 years ago did, during a time when crime was a lot worse?
- deergomoo 4y ago
  A lot of them died, or suffered some horrible attack, unnecessarily. I don’t understand what the argument is here. We survived without antibiotics, but I sure wouldn’t like to have been seriously ill in a time without them.
- TheCoelacanth 4y ago
  They mostly just developed a much higher tolerance for risk. That doesn't mean you should choose a higher level of risk if you have the option.
- mrexroad 4y ago
  There used to be quite a few pay-phones…
nelsonenzo 4y ago
Well, not to be contraversial, but you could also try living life without a 'threat model' assessment to live by. That sounds very close to living in fear, and that sounds miserable.
- jhanschoo 4y ago
  This "threat model" assessment doesn't come into play if your habit is to have it with you at all times. It's like how you have your wallet with you so you don't fear not being able to afford a trip home; you only really start having to assess these threats when you don't have your phone/wallet with you. The phone and wallet is thusly liberating you from such fear.

aiisjustanif 4y ago

> but you really don't know what could happen at any given moment, and need to phone emergency services. This is not paranoia (well maybe it is), but paranoia doesn't work retroactively, you have to be proactively paranoid. It would be nice to not live that way sometimes you know? There are places where people aren’t conditioned to feel that way.

evilduck 4y ago
You make it sound sinister like you’re expecting to be mugged, but I’ve called 911 on behalf of others by being the first to come across their roadside accident 2 different times in my life, and the first one wouldn’t have been able to call themselves due to injuries. Not having a phone would have meant leaving the scenes, driving to the next exit and finding a gas station or house, explaining there was an accident and pleading to use the phone, drawing out their time sitting injured on the roadside by several minutes before emergency services were even notified. I’ve also been the first to report tree limbs blocking roads and a water main that burst to non-emergency lines, again expediting services to fix them and reducing inconvenience overall. I’ve never felt like this was some conditioning of paranoia, only that I was enabled to help in ways that I wasn’t able to 20 years ago.
id 4y ago
You know, medical emergencies are a thing. You could always come across someone that needs help.
- varjag 4y ago
  Freak attacks are a thing too. Dumb to go out without concealed gun.
  - seattle_spring 4y ago
    That's about as relevant as claiming you should carry rattlesnake antivenom because you might come across someone recently bit.
    - varjag 4y ago
      Well exactly. Same goes for cellphones, with a slightly better probability.
karencarits 4y ago
You could read his post as him living with constant threats of victimization (this is how I read your comment) but it applies equally well to medical emergencies. I happened to be in such a situation once and it was stressful enough with medical guidance on the phone and assurances that the ambulance was on its way I will not risk to have to face such a situation alone or have to leave a person in distress just to call for help
hooande 4y ago
I always bring my phone in case I'm in a traffic accident and need to call someone to pick me up or let them know I'm going to the hospital
- mashtastic 4y ago
  I understand how annoying stalking on the HN forum must be — I have literally 1 question about YC application (it's NOT "Can you revise the whole thing?") would be insanely forever grateful if you'd come down and talk to me NB my email is in profile

quantified 4y ago

Pre-phones, it just wasn’t something you thought about. If you came up with a phone, you just may not be able to get it.

mlyle 4y ago
Pre-phones, you had functional payphones, etc, around to summon help with. People were more likely to be understanding and to make a call for you if you knocked on their door. I had to hike to a payphone a couple of times when I was stranded. That wouldn't work anymore. To reach the level of security that I had as a teenager, I need a mobile phone.

daniel-cussen 4y ago

There's places where a phone won't help you at all. On the other hand, just screaming will. Screaming, like not yelling, screaming. Helped me out exactly three weeks ago today, when I was getting coercively shepherded by supermarket guards, into the supermarket, because the cashier accused me of not paying. But they weren't interested in seeing my receipt. Just in harassing me. Fortunately Jessica at the Farmacias Manríquez (near Merced and José Miguel de la Barra in downtown Santiago) across the street heard me scream "I want you to call the real cops! You have no right to do this! Look at my receipt!" (in Spanish of course) and called my people, whom I couldn't reach because I left my phone at home. And they showed up, asked what the fuck, and I talked to the lawyer extensively about it, he agreed it was harassment and coercive threats. Who knew, screaming calls attention? And I couldn't use a phone because my hands were full, I was carrying glass bottles home that way because I didn't want to pay for a plastic bag. If I dropped them, they would say since they accused me of stealing them that I destroyed the merchandise and was a thief for sure. And then taken me to the ground and beat me up, that's their job basically. Thanks Jessica of Farmacias Manríquez! So phones? Not always a big help.

Adraghast 4y ago
> And I couldn't use a phone because my hands were full Sorry, but you could have used a phone.
cercatrova 4y ago
> So phones? Not always a big help. I don't understand how you came to this conclusion when you simultaneously say > [Jessica] called my people, whom I couldn't reach because I left my phone at home If you had a phone, you could've just...called them yourself.
- loloquwowndueo 4y ago
  Except no because the whole hands full and bottles thing. Did you even bother reading the comment?
  - 4y ago

b112 4y ago

I'm not really blaming you here, this attidue is very normal these days, but a mere 25 years ago, most people had no cell phone, no mobile phone, and never, ever suffered mishap as a result. (Inconvenience is not what I call a mishap) I grew up in the country, and a few times had to walk 20 miles home, due to a dead car. Being a rural area, after 10pm, I might see 1 or 2 cars the entire walk home (4 hours and a bit). During the day, there were times my car broke down, or I ran out of gas, so knocking on doors (a mile or so usually awake) was a better choice. Often, a kind person would have some gas. Compare this to ... the city. If you can yell loudly, literally thousands of people can hear you.

fao_ 4y ago
> most people had no cell phone, no mobile phone, and never, ever suffered mishap as a result. never??? How do you possibly have enough information to know that?!
- b112 4y ago
  Because I said "most people" not "all people".
cnelsenmilt 4y ago
25 years ago there was a pay phone in every gas station, and in denser areas in every corner market, bus terminal, grocery store, hotel, ..., not mentioning those installed directly along the street.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  People also didn’t live under the expectation of being reachable 24/7. Similarly, people used paper maps while driving which were cumbersome, but didn’t live under the expectation or the opportunity of traveling to new locations regularly.
  - alar44 4y ago
    Stop. Projecting. I don't know anyone who expects me to be available 24/7. Most people I know text don't text back immediately either. It's a you problem, not a societal one. Set some fucking boundaries and start acting like an adult.

akira2501 4y ago

It's a radio I can use to summon help. Why would I _ever_ want to be without that? Turn the notifications off, or get something like Tasker that can turn them off and on for you on a schedule. Otherwise, keep it in your pocket. This device has no control over you that you don't allow it to have.

beefield 4y ago
> It's a radio I can use to summon help. Why would I _ever_ want to be without that? I think it's good for you to occasionally to know that you are on your own. Completely responsible on what you do. Be it on the nearby forest or in some more extreme situation. I am not sure the direction of (illusion of) ultrasafety where our society has been going is all good. Occasionally it's good to have the red pill instead of the blue. Keeps your mind clear.
- eternityforest 4y ago
  On the other hand, people who don't have the "illusion of ultrasafety" seem to develop a habit of just accepting danger as part of life, to the point of actively speaking out against things like automatic detection for kids left in hot cars. I think the "Blue pill" mindset is more useful overall. The red pill generally does nothing to build a safer world.
  - beefield 4y ago
    You... do understand that the "safest" world literally means you lying in a bombproof vat of fluid with all your sensory input produced virtually so that there is no way you can get into an accident that harms you physically? A safe world is of course nice, i do not deny that. But I see higher goals for our society than that. And pushing the boundaries of our knowledge and understanding of the universe we live in is inherently not safe. I can't honestly say I respect people for choosing the blue pill. However, I very much respect their right to make that choice. I'd also appreciate that blue pillers respected red pillers' right to make their choice and not try to prohibit and demean everything they think looks risky. (obviously, dichotomy is not this strong in the real world)

JohnWhigham 4y ago

What do you imagine people 30 years ago did, during a time when crime was a lot worse?

deergomoo 4y ago
A lot of them died, or suffered some horrible attack, unnecessarily. I don’t understand what the argument is here. We survived without antibiotics, but I sure wouldn’t like to have been seriously ill in a time without them.
TheCoelacanth 4y ago
They mostly just developed a much higher tolerance for risk. That doesn't mean you should choose a higher level of risk if you have the option.
mrexroad 4y ago
There used to be quite a few pay-phones…

nelsonenzo 4y ago

Well, not to be contraversial, but you could also try living life without a 'threat model' assessment to live by. That sounds very close to living in fear, and that sounds miserable.

jhanschoo 4y ago
This "threat model" assessment doesn't come into play if your habit is to have it with you at all times. It's like how you have your wallet with you so you don't fear not being able to afford a trip home; you only really start having to assess these threats when you don't have your phone/wallet with you. The phone and wallet is thusly liberating you from such fear.