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Being forced to pay for council parking in the UK using a mobile app is completely astonishing to me, and leaving home without your mobile, or no data or a brok

Being forced to pay for council parking in the UK using a mobile app is completely astonishing to me, and leaving home without your mobile, or no data or a broken phone can cause you a world of difficulties. I didn't agree to wanting to normalise the removal of parking meters and mandatory app usage just to park your car in a park or highsteet. I'm not sure where this motivation started.

hedora 4y ago
In the US, you already need a phone to charge an EV (of course, the EV has a cell modem anyway, and license plate tracking cameras are becoming ubiquitous too...)
bobthepanda 4y ago
at least individual spot meters were reduced to block meters so that there was less physical infrastructure to maintain. in my city part of the motivation is data collection; rates are adjusted block by block based on the last quarter's occupancy relative to targets, and among other things the app nudges people towards slightly less optimal parking spots that are either cheaper or more available.
- b112 4y ago
  This data collection doesn't require a smartphone to pay, though.
  - hedora 4y ago
    How would you sell the result to marketers, or warrantlessly track people after the fact without the app?
  - bobthepanda 4y ago
    you can put a QR code on a metal sheet nailed to a post and call it a day. And at least where I live the app option is also accompanied by an SMS number to text payments to. An actual payment terminal requires electricity, a network connection and maintenance. And it has to be rugged to deal with the outdoors environment. If it takes cash, it also needs to be fairly rugged to prevent people from making off with the cash, and the cash receiving bits need a fair bit of maintenance as well.
Telemakhos 4y ago
If you have to have a phone to pay for things like parking or for proof of vaccination status, then you have to carry a locator beacon that can be tracked, and your movements can be recorded. Who records them (Google, Apple, someone else) is irrelevant; the record can be requisitioned by your government or a Five Eyes partner at the touch of a few buttons. Your locator beacon comes with handy built-in cameras and microphones, and it probably has speech-to-text capability on chip if you have a recent model. Also it's reading your mail and texts and encrypted chats, and you browse the web on it, so it potentially knows a lot about you. Good thing you can trust it not to spy on you.
- nijave 4y ago
  You can carry a phone and leave it turned off most of the time. Unless you're paying only in cash, your electronic payments can be traced anyway
  - StanislavPetrov 4y ago
    Turning off a spy-phone does nothing to prevent them from tracking you. You need to either take the battery out (impossible with most spy-phones) or use a faraday bag.
    - userbinator 4y ago
      Does Airplane Mode not do anything? AFAIK it could be a violation of FCC regulations if it was still transmitting or receiving with that enabled.
      - Izkata 4y ago
        Airplane mode is only a convenience switch. My phone lets me turn wifi back on with airplane mode still active, for example.
ectopod 4y ago
Was there literally no alternative? Round these parts you can pay in cash (with no change given). I've heard people complain they were forced to use the app when they just didn't have any cash. (I have to be aware of the alternatives because I don't have a smartphone. It's not been an insurmountable problem yet.)
- CommanderData 4y ago
  No alternatives and here's the Councils announcement: https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machines/removal_of_parking_machines https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machine... Some have extended to non-residential areas. One of the biggest parking apps says this: Q: "I have no network coverage and need to park?" A: "Move quickly to an area with better network coverage and complete your parking transaction with PayByPhone... Pay for your parking via other methods such as PayPoint or via the Pay & Display machine where available" Reference: https://support.paybyphone.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/360010478877-I-have-no-network-coverage-and-need-to-park- https://support.paybyphone.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/360010478... FYI 'Pay and Display' are the parking meters being removed, 'PayPoint' might be in SOME convenience stores/shops. But if you know London these can be 20-30 mins walk or none there are all at your parking destination. Good luck attending an appointment during work lunch times!
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - _uy6i 4y ago
    Lol - “move quickly” Tangentially - I’m always astonished at the lack of self-awareness of many municipal/utility service providers - they pretend like I’ve sought out their service and WANT to engage with them, when in fact I just want them to provide me the thing I need (or am obligated to do) with as little hassle as possible…
Adraghast 4y ago
Similarly, I went out to dinner Friday and could not scan the QR code to view the menu because I decided to leave my phone in the car. I asked for a a physical menu and was told they literally do not have them anymore. Had to hunch over my friend's phone instead.
- judge2020 4y ago
  This is mostly regional in my experience in Atlanta: everyone moved back to paper/laminated menus ASAP, as soon as any concerns for covid on objects were alleviated. Only a few businesses took it as an opportunity to save the manager the workflow of needing to print out and prepare physical menus.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
alar44 4y ago
It's way more efficient on a number of levels.

hedora 4y ago

In the US, you already need a phone to charge an EV (of course, the EV has a cell modem anyway, and license plate tracking cameras are becoming ubiquitous too...)

bobthepanda 4y ago

at least individual spot meters were reduced to block meters so that there was less physical infrastructure to maintain. in my city part of the motivation is data collection; rates are adjusted block by block based on the last quarter's occupancy relative to targets, and among other things the app nudges people towards slightly less optimal parking spots that are either cheaper or more available.

b112 4y ago
This data collection doesn't require a smartphone to pay, though.
- hedora 4y ago
  How would you sell the result to marketers, or warrantlessly track people after the fact without the app?
- bobthepanda 4y ago
  you can put a QR code on a metal sheet nailed to a post and call it a day. And at least where I live the app option is also accompanied by an SMS number to text payments to. An actual payment terminal requires electricity, a network connection and maintenance. And it has to be rugged to deal with the outdoors environment. If it takes cash, it also needs to be fairly rugged to prevent people from making off with the cash, and the cash receiving bits need a fair bit of maintenance as well.

Telemakhos 4y ago

If you have to have a phone to pay for things like parking or for proof of vaccination status, then you have to carry a locator beacon that can be tracked, and your movements can be recorded. Who records them (Google, Apple, someone else) is irrelevant; the record can be requisitioned by your government or a Five Eyes partner at the touch of a few buttons. Your locator beacon comes with handy built-in cameras and microphones, and it probably has speech-to-text capability on chip if you have a recent model. Also it's reading your mail and texts and encrypted chats, and you browse the web on it, so it potentially knows a lot about you. Good thing you can trust it not to spy on you.

nijave 4y ago
You can carry a phone and leave it turned off most of the time. Unless you're paying only in cash, your electronic payments can be traced anyway
- StanislavPetrov 4y ago
  Turning off a spy-phone does nothing to prevent them from tracking you. You need to either take the battery out (impossible with most spy-phones) or use a faraday bag.
  - userbinator 4y ago
    Does Airplane Mode not do anything? AFAIK it could be a violation of FCC regulations if it was still transmitting or receiving with that enabled.
    - Izkata 4y ago
      Airplane mode is only a convenience switch. My phone lets me turn wifi back on with airplane mode still active, for example.

ectopod 4y ago

Was there literally no alternative? Round these parts you can pay in cash (with no change given). I've heard people complain they were forced to use the app when they just didn't have any cash. (I have to be aware of the alternatives because I don't have a smartphone. It's not been an insurmountable problem yet.)

CommanderData 4y ago
No alternatives and here's the Councils announcement: https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machines/removal_of_parking_machines https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machine... Some have extended to non-residential areas. One of the biggest parking apps says this: Q: "I have no network coverage and need to park?" A: "Move quickly to an area with better network coverage and complete your parking transaction with PayByPhone... Pay for your parking via other methods such as PayPoint or via the Pay & Display machine where available" Reference: https://support.paybyphone.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/360010478877-I-have-no-network-coverage-and-need-to-park- https://support.paybyphone.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/360010478... FYI 'Pay and Display' are the parking meters being removed, 'PayPoint' might be in SOME convenience stores/shops. But if you know London these can be 20-30 mins walk or none there are all at your parking destination. Good luck attending an appointment during work lunch times!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- _uy6i 4y ago
  Lol - “move quickly” Tangentially - I’m always astonished at the lack of self-awareness of many municipal/utility service providers - they pretend like I’ve sought out their service and WANT to engage with them, when in fact I just want them to provide me the thing I need (or am obligated to do) with as little hassle as possible…

Adraghast 4y ago

Similarly, I went out to dinner Friday and could not scan the QR code to view the menu because I decided to leave my phone in the car. I asked for a a physical menu and was told they literally do not have them anymore. Had to hunch over my friend's phone instead.

judge2020 4y ago
This is mostly regional in my experience in Atlanta: everyone moved back to paper/laminated menus ASAP, as soon as any concerns for covid on objects were alleviated. Only a few businesses took it as an opportunity to save the manager the workflow of needing to print out and prepare physical menus.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

alar44 4y ago

It's way more efficient on a number of levels.