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I have spoken with a few hardcore “progressive” fanatics arguing for absolute equality of outcome. It’s a good reminder that intelligence is used to achieve go

I have spoken with a few hardcore “progressive” fanatics arguing for absolute equality of outcome. It’s a good reminder that intelligence is used to achieve goals, it’s not used for setting goals. When someone’s values are so different it’s hard to have any sort of meaningful conversation.

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
> intelligence is used to achieve goals I thought grit was more important than intelligence?
- stretchwithme 4y ago
  Is that saying that grit is less important?
- WalterBright 4y ago
  Intelligence is a tool. If it isn't actually used (i.e. applying grit), it is useless.
haswell 4y ago
> When someone’s values are so different it’s hard to have any sort of meaningful conversation. This is something I spend a lot of time thinking/worrying about. I deeply believe that to make meaningful progress, we all need to start listening to each other. Not just what others are saying outwardly, but looking for the underlying reasons they’re saying it - their values. When someone’s position on policy is drastically different than my own, a conversation about values often reveals that we’re not so far off in terms of what we believe. They just got stuck on their particular implementation detail. But when values are worlds apart, what then? On the plus side, I’ve encountered far more people who fall into the former category - disagreement on policy - then I’ve encountered in the latter - a true chasm between our value systems. The frustrating part is that the same group of people in the policy disagreement category are quick to lump me in with the value extremists without stopping to make sure that’s what I really believe. And such is the state of modern political discourse, where championing equality is derided as a fanciful dream about equity, when nothing could be further from the truth.
stretchwithme 4y ago
Dis NASA use intelligence when deciding on its goals in the 1960s? Are there reasons it decided to land on the Moon instead of on the Sun? Why didn't the US make that a goal in 1793?
- Slamidan 4y ago
  Intelligence without faith and spirit just turns in on itself. The 60s benefited from peak functional values before the decline, they braved danger when we lock down today. They were also likely the last generation before the rot of mass dysgenics set in. Why Was the 1960s the Peak of Human Accomplishment (and Pro-Sociality)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kokKSIq5Z0g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kokKSIq5Z0g
  - stretchwithme 4y ago
    There's no proof that the 1960s was the peak.
davorak 4y ago
> When someone’s values are so different it’s hard to have any sort of meaningful conversation. I recommend having 'deep' conversations. Dig down into definitions, in to differences perceived, find where your perceptions differ. Then you can propose experiments that would change one perception or another. Most people do not have the time for that for one reason or another(including myself sometimes), but it has worked for me and might for you.

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago

> intelligence is used to achieve goals I thought grit was more important than intelligence?

stretchwithme 4y ago
Is that saying that grit is less important?
WalterBright 4y ago
Intelligence is a tool. If it isn't actually used (i.e. applying grit), it is useless.

haswell 4y ago

> When someone’s values are so different it’s hard to have any sort of meaningful conversation. This is something I spend a lot of time thinking/worrying about. I deeply believe that to make meaningful progress, we all need to start listening to each other. Not just what others are saying outwardly, but looking for the underlying reasons they’re saying it - their values. When someone’s position on policy is drastically different than my own, a conversation about values often reveals that we’re not so far off in terms of what we believe. They just got stuck on their particular implementation detail. But when values are worlds apart, what then? On the plus side, I’ve encountered far more people who fall into the former category - disagreement on policy - then I’ve encountered in the latter - a true chasm between our value systems. The frustrating part is that the same group of people in the policy disagreement category are quick to lump me in with the value extremists without stopping to make sure that’s what I really believe. And such is the state of modern political discourse, where championing equality is derided as a fanciful dream about equity, when nothing could be further from the truth.

stretchwithme 4y ago

Dis NASA use intelligence when deciding on its goals in the 1960s? Are there reasons it decided to land on the Moon instead of on the Sun? Why didn't the US make that a goal in 1793?

Slamidan 4y ago
Intelligence without faith and spirit just turns in on itself. The 60s benefited from peak functional values before the decline, they braved danger when we lock down today. They were also likely the last generation before the rot of mass dysgenics set in. Why Was the 1960s the Peak of Human Accomplishment (and Pro-Sociality)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kokKSIq5Z0g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kokKSIq5Z0g
- stretchwithme 4y ago
  There's no proof that the 1960s was the peak.

davorak 4y ago

> When someone’s values are so different it’s hard to have any sort of meaningful conversation. I recommend having 'deep' conversations. Dig down into definitions, in to differences perceived, find where your perceptions differ. Then you can propose experiments that would change one perception or another. Most people do not have the time for that for one reason or another(including myself sometimes), but it has worked for me and might for you.