9 ms·

My first winter in NYC was very rough and I didn't understand why at first. I got a blood test at the doc and he said my vitamin D was very low. I committed to

My first winter in NYC was very rough and I didn't understand why at first. I got a blood test at the doc and he said my vitamin D was very low. I committed to walking in the sun at least a half hour a day, weather permitting, and I never really had issues again. Part of the issue was I was spending a lot of time walking outside but not in sunlight due to the tall buildings. Just my anecdotal 2c

pigtailgirl 4y ago
wildly speculating from an evolutionary perspective - it reasons that we'd evolve such that our moods are better in light - otherwise there would be another push to stagnate vs become exposed to more - such that evolution can do it's thing - evolution tends towards evolution after all -
tayo42 4y ago
I finally got a chance to move south and this was the first winter I didn't spend being weird and existential about everything. Just kind of enjoyed life.
carabiner 4y ago
I live in Seattle and have been depressed for a while. I had my Vitamin D3 levels checked via blood test, and they were really low. Started taking 5,000 IU per day, and I feel exactly the same as before.
- numinoid 4y ago
  Anecdotally, I had to bump up to 10,000 IU to see a difference.
- civilized 4y ago
  In this and the GP we have Vitamin D and depression in a nutshell.
- mupuff1234 4y ago
  Did you do another blood test to check if the levels changed?
- trash3 4y ago
  Check your diet. Just because you take vitamin d supplements doesn't mean it gets absorbed into your bloodstream.
- tomatowurst 4y ago
  5000 IU is really too much. At best 2000, 2500 IU is good.
  - dralley 4y ago
    5000 isn't too much when you're catching up from a deficiency.
    - BenjiWiebe 4y ago
      I took 15k IU daily (at the advice of my doctor) for several months at one point to get my levels back up. I don't remember the numbers, but my levels were extremely low.
  - Vecr 4y ago
    No, 5000 IU per day is generally considered the highest non megadose. Make sure it is good quality (D3, USP in the US), and it should be fine. Some people say also to take K2 (also make sure it's USP in the US), but I'm not sure the exact supposed mechanism of protection from adverse effects from D3. Something about preventing calcium from leaching from the bones and accumulating in the blood, I think.
    - pmoriarty 4y ago
      "Vitamin D controls the absorption of calcium into the blood. Vitamin K2 controls where that calcium ends up. "Over-supplementation of vitamin D3 without ample vitamin K2 leads to problems of excess calcium. "If calcium isn’t laid into bone, it will find itself in other tissues, like your arteries. Calcium in the arteries is BAD. It contributes to atherosclerosis and vessel stiffness." https://dralexrinehart.com/articles/the-vitamin-d-and-vitamin-k2-connection-understanding-the-mechanisms-what-to-test-and-how-much-d3-and-k2-to-take/ https://dralexrinehart.com/articles/the-vitamin-d-and-vitami...
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - 4y ago
- cashsterling 4y ago
  It can take a while for your Vit-D levels to rise, even with supplementing 5k IU per day... I would check your levels again. And, of course, Vit-D is not the only contributor to depression so it might be good to see a GP and/or get a general blood panel done.
- olah_1 4y ago
  I have never felt an affect from oral vitamins in any situation. Sitting in the sun however seems to do more than just “increase vitamin d levels”. The sensation is just overwhelmingly lovely. It seems to reduce cortisol, makes you feel tired in a euphoric way. Animals love to warm their fur in shafts of sunlight too. Perhaps we should be thinking more in terms of joyful activities in general and less trying to biohack.
  - hnick 4y ago
    Yes sunlight makes me extremely tired, like if I go for a walk or a picnic or something I'll end up far more exhausted than anything else can explain. I wonder if it's some kind of overcompensating effect due to my typical lack of it.
  - __ryan__ 4y ago
    That narrative might work for you, but the bio-hack narrative might work for others. Maybe the takeaway is to go into things with a positive attitude but also take a personal inventory and adapt if something that is supposed to work doesn’t work for you.
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    > Animals love to warm their fur in shafts of sunlight too. Indeed. My dog always lies in the sun for a while when he goes outside. Once he's warm enough, he moves to the shade. Animals know.
    - supertofu 4y ago
      My blind cat always seeks sun spots as well!
  - rohitb91 4y ago
    100% the same for me as well. When I sit in the sun I feel invigorated, I Feel a rush of pleasant feelings throughout my body. I take vitamin D regularly, 4000iu+, and I don’t feel anything remarkable. With the sun it’s almost an instant jolt of joy.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  Seattle is extremely damp and temperate, so you see a lot of mold and allergens there year round. If redressing your vitamin D levels doesn't fix it, look for hidden mold and/or allergies.
- Trasmatta 4y ago
  Since you're in Seattle, check out bright light therapy as well.
- xwowsersx 4y ago
  did you get blood work done again though after taking the 5K IUs for a while? it's possible that the supplementation didn't bring your Vit D levels to within range and you need 10K IUs+. Of course, I'm not suggesting this would necessarily help with your depression, but just pointing that you gotta be scientific/anecdotal when it comes to supplementation/blood panels
- femiagbabiaka 4y ago
  10k IU's a day is what it took me. I found that value almost by accident, while starting to follow Stan Efferding's Vertical Diet, which recommends that as a part of a suite of daily vitamins (it is much better than the name belies). IMO anyone who works a desk job should take 10k IU's daily. I fell out of the habit during covid quarantine and my levels (and my mood) were dangerously low when I came out on the other side.
- TameAntelope 4y ago
  5k IUs is well beyond anything your body has a use for, and in fact is above what your body can tolerate! [0] > RDA: The Recommended Dietary Allowance for adults 19 years and older is 600 IU daily for men and women, and for adults >70 years it is 800 IU daily. > UL: The Tolerable Upper Intake Level is the maximum daily intake unlikely to cause harmful effects on health. The UL for vitamin D for adults and children ages 9+ is 4,000 IU. So it's possible your 5k IUs were causing you more harm than good. [0] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/vitamin-d/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/vitamin-d/
  - mikenew 4y ago
    Those numbers are wrong by an order of magnitude, because the original estimation was based on faulty math. The actual dose needed to bring serum levels up for most people would be far higher. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4210929/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4210929/
    - TameAntelope 4y ago
      I'm going to go ahead and trust Harvard Medicine over a single study that has since gone largely uncited, and was published in "Nutrients" which carries an h-index of 115 (Nature, for example, carries an h-index of 1226) [0][1]. [0] https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=19700188323&tip=sid&clean=0 https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=19700188323&ti... [1] https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=21206&tip=sid&clean=0 https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=21206&tip=sid&...
      - beowulfey 4y ago
        You should never judge an article by where it was published (some exceptions of course), only in the quality of the work. Impact factors are loosely a measurement of significance of the work, in terms of how broadly applicable they are to the fields of science. It is absolutely not a strict measure of the expected quality of the article. Also, for what it's worth, most of the articles referenced in the Harvard Medicine review referring to dosages are from before 2010, so they may be out of date.
- carabiner 4y ago
  To answer a bunch of questions: Yes, I had bloodwork done later showing my D3 level in the typical range. Whether that was due to the supplement, or diet, or lifestyle I can't say. I take 1 pill (USP certified) on average 2-3x per week. So not every day. I've got treatment resistant depression and have tried probably everything else you're about to suggest. The only thing that kind of helped was dihydrotestosterone, but that is now illegal in the US. Also tianeptine and vorinostat, but also very hard to get in the US these days.
  - laurentlbm 4y ago
    I have TRD too and tried so many things. It sucks.
  - trts 4y ago
    Also in Seattle, also recovered from treatment resistant depression. I recommend looking into TMS. I wish I had done it much sooner. Wish you luck, it’s been an especially gloomy year here.
    - carabiner 4y ago
      Tried it through Neurostim in Bellevue. Didn't work. Waiting for the Stanford SAINT protocol to be approved.
  - tsol 4y ago
    Did you try vorinostat yourself to treat depression, or was it coincidental? I never heard of that for depression, but looking at the mechanism it can make sense-- some HDAC inhibitors have powerful effects on mental issues
  - pmoriarty 4y ago
    "I've got treatment resistant depression and have tried probably everything else you're about to suggest." I bet you haven't tried MDMA therapy.
- m348e912 4y ago
  I've run into this too. It's worth noting that there are a few different types of vitamin D. ergocalciferol - vitamin d2 derived from plants cholecalciferol - vitamin d3 from sunlight - vitamin d3 derived from lanolin washed from lambs wool - vitamin d3 derived from lichen I've tried a few different types, many don't seem to make me feel any different. Liquid vitamin d3 [0] seems to work well at doses above 5k IU. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Designs-Health-Emulsi-D3-Emulsified-Vitamin/dp/B0039N3J58/ https://www.amazon.com/Designs-Health-Emulsi-D3-Emulsified-V...
- penetrarthur 4y ago
  I wasn't depressed but had low energy levels. I started taking 24,000 IU a day and within two weeks I had way more energy, constantly elevated mood and just felt happy overall. I recently lowered the dose to 12,000 IU per day. I did blood test before that and I had super low Vitamin D3 levels and I live quite far up north.
KennyBlanken 4y ago
In the northeast during wintertime, it's impossible to accumulate enough vitamin D from sunlight, especially not from such a short period of time, fully clothed. Even if you were not fully clothed, there's so little UV making to you because of the sun's low angle and distance.
throwingrocks 4y ago
How did you narrow down the issue to sunlight exposure? Seems plausible that, being new to NYC as you say, there could have been an adjustment period that you eventually moved past? Not trying to dismiss your experience. I just haven’t experienced making one small change in my life and seeing significant benefits.
zamfi 4y ago
If you were walking around outside in the winter and this helped, that's pretty good evidence that sun exposure is beneficial for you outside of vitamin D production. In the winter months in NYC, the UV intensity is too low to cause vitamin D production in the skin.
radu_floricica 4y ago
That was most likely seasonal affective disorder (SAD, or winter blues). I've had a bad winter once something like 20 years ago, and it was so bad that I'm still obsessed with proper indoor lighting. tl;dr of it is that you want soft, yellow light in the evenings, and full spectrum, much more powerful than you think in the rest of the day, especially mornings.

pigtailgirl 4y ago

wildly speculating from an evolutionary perspective - it reasons that we'd evolve such that our moods are better in light - otherwise there would be another push to stagnate vs become exposed to more - such that evolution can do it's thing - evolution tends towards evolution after all -

tayo42 4y ago

I finally got a chance to move south and this was the first winter I didn't spend being weird and existential about everything. Just kind of enjoyed life.

carabiner 4y ago

I live in Seattle and have been depressed for a while. I had my Vitamin D3 levels checked via blood test, and they were really low. Started taking 5,000 IU per day, and I feel exactly the same as before.

numinoid 4y ago
Anecdotally, I had to bump up to 10,000 IU to see a difference.
civilized 4y ago
In this and the GP we have Vitamin D and depression in a nutshell.
mupuff1234 4y ago
Did you do another blood test to check if the levels changed?
trash3 4y ago
Check your diet. Just because you take vitamin d supplements doesn't mean it gets absorbed into your bloodstream.
tomatowurst 4y ago
5000 IU is really too much. At best 2000, 2500 IU is good.
- dralley 4y ago
  5000 isn't too much when you're catching up from a deficiency.
  - BenjiWiebe 4y ago
    I took 15k IU daily (at the advice of my doctor) for several months at one point to get my levels back up. I don't remember the numbers, but my levels were extremely low.
- Vecr 4y ago
  No, 5000 IU per day is generally considered the highest non megadose. Make sure it is good quality (D3, USP in the US), and it should be fine. Some people say also to take K2 (also make sure it's USP in the US), but I'm not sure the exact supposed mechanism of protection from adverse effects from D3. Something about preventing calcium from leaching from the bones and accumulating in the blood, I think.
  - pmoriarty 4y ago
    "Vitamin D controls the absorption of calcium into the blood. Vitamin K2 controls where that calcium ends up. "Over-supplementation of vitamin D3 without ample vitamin K2 leads to problems of excess calcium. "If calcium isn’t laid into bone, it will find itself in other tissues, like your arteries. Calcium in the arteries is BAD. It contributes to atherosclerosis and vessel stiffness." https://dralexrinehart.com/articles/the-vitamin-d-and-vitamin-k2-connection-understanding-the-mechanisms-what-to-test-and-how-much-d3-and-k2-to-take/ https://dralexrinehart.com/articles/the-vitamin-d-and-vitami...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- 4y ago
cashsterling 4y ago
It can take a while for your Vit-D levels to rise, even with supplementing 5k IU per day... I would check your levels again. And, of course, Vit-D is not the only contributor to depression so it might be good to see a GP and/or get a general blood panel done.
olah_1 4y ago
I have never felt an affect from oral vitamins in any situation. Sitting in the sun however seems to do more than just “increase vitamin d levels”. The sensation is just overwhelmingly lovely. It seems to reduce cortisol, makes you feel tired in a euphoric way. Animals love to warm their fur in shafts of sunlight too. Perhaps we should be thinking more in terms of joyful activities in general and less trying to biohack.
- hnick 4y ago
  Yes sunlight makes me extremely tired, like if I go for a walk or a picnic or something I'll end up far more exhausted than anything else can explain. I wonder if it's some kind of overcompensating effect due to my typical lack of it.
- __ryan__ 4y ago
  That narrative might work for you, but the bio-hack narrative might work for others. Maybe the takeaway is to go into things with a positive attitude but also take a personal inventory and adapt if something that is supposed to work doesn’t work for you.
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  > Animals love to warm their fur in shafts of sunlight too. Indeed. My dog always lies in the sun for a while when he goes outside. Once he's warm enough, he moves to the shade. Animals know.
  - supertofu 4y ago
    My blind cat always seeks sun spots as well!
- rohitb91 4y ago
  100% the same for me as well. When I sit in the sun I feel invigorated, I Feel a rush of pleasant feelings throughout my body. I take vitamin D regularly, 4000iu+, and I don’t feel anything remarkable. With the sun it’s almost an instant jolt of joy.
DoreenMichele 4y ago
Seattle is extremely damp and temperate, so you see a lot of mold and allergens there year round. If redressing your vitamin D levels doesn't fix it, look for hidden mold and/or allergies.
Trasmatta 4y ago
Since you're in Seattle, check out bright light therapy as well.
xwowsersx 4y ago
did you get blood work done again though after taking the 5K IUs for a while? it's possible that the supplementation didn't bring your Vit D levels to within range and you need 10K IUs+. Of course, I'm not suggesting this would necessarily help with your depression, but just pointing that you gotta be scientific/anecdotal when it comes to supplementation/blood panels
femiagbabiaka 4y ago
10k IU's a day is what it took me. I found that value almost by accident, while starting to follow Stan Efferding's Vertical Diet, which recommends that as a part of a suite of daily vitamins (it is much better than the name belies). IMO anyone who works a desk job should take 10k IU's daily. I fell out of the habit during covid quarantine and my levels (and my mood) were dangerously low when I came out on the other side.
TameAntelope 4y ago
5k IUs is well beyond anything your body has a use for, and in fact is above what your body can tolerate! [0] > RDA: The Recommended Dietary Allowance for adults 19 years and older is 600 IU daily for men and women, and for adults >70 years it is 800 IU daily. > UL: The Tolerable Upper Intake Level is the maximum daily intake unlikely to cause harmful effects on health. The UL for vitamin D for adults and children ages 9+ is 4,000 IU. So it's possible your 5k IUs were causing you more harm than good. [0] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/vitamin-d/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/vitamin-d/
- mikenew 4y ago
  Those numbers are wrong by an order of magnitude, because the original estimation was based on faulty math. The actual dose needed to bring serum levels up for most people would be far higher. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4210929/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4210929/
  - TameAntelope 4y ago
    I'm going to go ahead and trust Harvard Medicine over a single study that has since gone largely uncited, and was published in "Nutrients" which carries an h-index of 115 (Nature, for example, carries an h-index of 1226) [0][1]. [0] https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=19700188323&tip=sid&clean=0 https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=19700188323&ti... [1] https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=21206&tip=sid&clean=0 https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=21206&tip=sid&...
    - beowulfey 4y ago
      You should never judge an article by where it was published (some exceptions of course), only in the quality of the work. Impact factors are loosely a measurement of significance of the work, in terms of how broadly applicable they are to the fields of science. It is absolutely not a strict measure of the expected quality of the article. Also, for what it's worth, most of the articles referenced in the Harvard Medicine review referring to dosages are from before 2010, so they may be out of date.
carabiner 4y ago
To answer a bunch of questions: Yes, I had bloodwork done later showing my D3 level in the typical range. Whether that was due to the supplement, or diet, or lifestyle I can't say. I take 1 pill (USP certified) on average 2-3x per week. So not every day. I've got treatment resistant depression and have tried probably everything else you're about to suggest. The only thing that kind of helped was dihydrotestosterone, but that is now illegal in the US. Also tianeptine and vorinostat, but also very hard to get in the US these days.
- laurentlbm 4y ago
  I have TRD too and tried so many things. It sucks.
- trts 4y ago
  Also in Seattle, also recovered from treatment resistant depression. I recommend looking into TMS. I wish I had done it much sooner. Wish you luck, it’s been an especially gloomy year here.
  - carabiner 4y ago
    Tried it through Neurostim in Bellevue. Didn't work. Waiting for the Stanford SAINT protocol to be approved.
- tsol 4y ago
  Did you try vorinostat yourself to treat depression, or was it coincidental? I never heard of that for depression, but looking at the mechanism it can make sense-- some HDAC inhibitors have powerful effects on mental issues
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  "I've got treatment resistant depression and have tried probably everything else you're about to suggest." I bet you haven't tried MDMA therapy.
m348e912 4y ago
I've run into this too. It's worth noting that there are a few different types of vitamin D. ergocalciferol - vitamin d2 derived from plants cholecalciferol - vitamin d3 from sunlight - vitamin d3 derived from lanolin washed from lambs wool - vitamin d3 derived from lichen I've tried a few different types, many don't seem to make me feel any different. Liquid vitamin d3 [0] seems to work well at doses above 5k IU. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Designs-Health-Emulsi-D3-Emulsified-Vitamin/dp/B0039N3J58/ https://www.amazon.com/Designs-Health-Emulsi-D3-Emulsified-V...
penetrarthur 4y ago
I wasn't depressed but had low energy levels. I started taking 24,000 IU a day and within two weeks I had way more energy, constantly elevated mood and just felt happy overall. I recently lowered the dose to 12,000 IU per day. I did blood test before that and I had super low Vitamin D3 levels and I live quite far up north.

KennyBlanken 4y ago

In the northeast during wintertime, it's impossible to accumulate enough vitamin D from sunlight, especially not from such a short period of time, fully clothed. Even if you were not fully clothed, there's so little UV making to you because of the sun's low angle and distance.

throwingrocks 4y ago

How did you narrow down the issue to sunlight exposure? Seems plausible that, being new to NYC as you say, there could have been an adjustment period that you eventually moved past? Not trying to dismiss your experience. I just haven’t experienced making one small change in my life and seeing significant benefits.

zamfi 4y ago

If you were walking around outside in the winter and this helped, that's pretty good evidence that sun exposure is beneficial for you outside of vitamin D production. In the winter months in NYC, the UV intensity is too low to cause vitamin D production in the skin.

radu_floricica 4y ago

That was most likely seasonal affective disorder (SAD, or winter blues). I've had a bad winter once something like 20 years ago, and it was so bad that I'm still obsessed with proper indoor lighting. tl;dr of it is that you want soft, yellow light in the evenings, and full spectrum, much more powerful than you think in the rest of the day, especially mornings.