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I think if you succeeded in making a game that successfully simulated the experience of poverty, it would be extremely unfun to play. There is a popular miscon

by jl6 5y ago

I think if you succeeded in making a game that successfully simulated the experience of poverty, it would be extremely unfun to play. There is a popular misconception that poverty amounts to having your bank balance reset to zero. “Damn, guess I’ll have to earn it all back”. But what you can’t reset or simulate is the human capital embodied within you that got you to this point. Your lifetime of education, your experience of problem solving, your strong network of contacts, your history of good decision-making. You also can’t ignore the physical comfort that you, the player, would be in as you play the game. With all of that, you very likely could just earn it all back. That’s not what poverty is about.

BigBubbleButt 5y ago
> I think if you succeeded in making a game that successfully simulated the experience of poverty, it would be extremely unfun to play. I don't think you're someone that plays many videogame simulations, as the whole point is making something fun that's inherently boring in real life. There are so many popular simulators for famously mind-numbing jobs: farming, janitorial services (and further niches within this including powerwashing), driving for hours on an empty desert road (both as a trucker or as someone that's just bored), and more. Here's a great game that simulates trying to survive in an imaginary Soviet country. You pretty much always die, are coerced to murder people as part of your job, and usually watch as your family starves or freezes to death despite your best efforts to keep them alive. And you know what? I honestly think it's one of the best videogames ever made. https://papersplea.se/ https://papersplea.se/ If the goal is to actually present the experience of poverty, then yeah it would be unfun to play by design. I wouldn't want that job in Arstotzka either, even if the game is fun to play. I'd also never want to be a truck driver, but I love the idea of doing it in a videogame.
- t-3 5y ago
  Uh, powerwashing, (sand,dry ice, etc)-blasting, is actually fun in real life. If I could get a job doing only that, I would totally do it. Janitorial work is actually pretty engaging and fun, it's the having to do it EVERY DAY for almost nothing and being disrespected and socially maligned for it that sucks! Driving is also fun!
- klyrs 5y ago
  While I have never understood the existence of games like Long Haul Trucker, they do exist.
  - vmception 5y ago
    I ran across a stream of a guy playing Euro Truck Simulator and it was hilarious The host was hilarious and the commenters were all amused by how oddly therapeutic and also anxiety inducing it was
- lelandfe 5y ago
  And there’s a whole range of games intentionally meant to not be fun - there are sad games, like That Dragon, Cancer. There are meditative games, games that will make you angry, and more. Video games are art! The person making this poverty simulator game could add a fun ludonarrative angle to it like Papers Please - or it could aim to be realistic and encourage empathy for those suffering. This War of Mine is an example that strikes a balance between the two.
manachar 5y ago
The interesting part of simulation genres is finding out what you need to change to make it fun. What makes a simulation game fun varies per game. Stardew Valley could be described as a boring loop. EVE Online just yesterday made fans happy by getting official Microsoft Excel support. The key seems to be to have a particular hook and perspective. So, for a poverty simulator, you could embrace hustle culture and have people race to exploit loopholes in systems to maximize return. Alternatively, you could take a radical approach at start with the crush of poverty and embrace it something like a rogue-like where you will probably always lose, but this time maybe you get a little further. Whether you want to embrace it ridiculously like Binding of Isaac embraced evangelical childhood abuse or be something else works. Also worth remembering Papers, Please as a good example of a simulation making something "not fun" fun.
- kennywinker 5y ago
  > EVE Online just yesterday made fans happy by getting official Microsoft Excel support. That's the funniest single phrase I've read all day. Thank you for sharing that, it brought me great joy :)
  - Bud 5y ago
    What's even funnier is, it's actually true.
- NylaTheWolf 5y ago
  I definitely agree with you about Papers, Please. It's literally about doing paperwork and it's one of the best games I've played.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  It also doesn't necessarily have to be "fun". I would argue that playing poverty simulator definitely should not ever be "fun". It might have plenty of educational or artistic value, though, which might be a good enough reason for some people to play it.

by jl6 5y ago

BigBubbleButt 5y ago

> I think if you succeeded in making a game that successfully simulated the experience of poverty, it would be extremely unfun to play. I don't think you're someone that plays many videogame simulations, as the whole point is making something fun that's inherently boring in real life. There are so many popular simulators for famously mind-numbing jobs: farming, janitorial services (and further niches within this including powerwashing), driving for hours on an empty desert road (both as a trucker or as someone that's just bored), and more. Here's a great game that simulates trying to survive in an imaginary Soviet country. You pretty much always die, are coerced to murder people as part of your job, and usually watch as your family starves or freezes to death despite your best efforts to keep them alive. And you know what? I honestly think it's one of the best videogames ever made. https://papersplea.se/ https://papersplea.se/ If the goal is to actually present the experience of poverty, then yeah it would be unfun to play by design. I wouldn't want that job in Arstotzka either, even if the game is fun to play. I'd also never want to be a truck driver, but I love the idea of doing it in a videogame.

t-3 5y ago
Uh, powerwashing, (sand,dry ice, etc)-blasting, is actually fun in real life. If I could get a job doing only that, I would totally do it. Janitorial work is actually pretty engaging and fun, it's the having to do it EVERY DAY for almost nothing and being disrespected and socially maligned for it that sucks! Driving is also fun!
klyrs 5y ago
While I have never understood the existence of games like Long Haul Trucker, they do exist.
- vmception 5y ago
  I ran across a stream of a guy playing Euro Truck Simulator and it was hilarious The host was hilarious and the commenters were all amused by how oddly therapeutic and also anxiety inducing it was
lelandfe 5y ago
And there’s a whole range of games intentionally meant to not be fun - there are sad games, like That Dragon, Cancer. There are meditative games, games that will make you angry, and more. Video games are art! The person making this poverty simulator game could add a fun ludonarrative angle to it like Papers Please - or it could aim to be realistic and encourage empathy for those suffering. This War of Mine is an example that strikes a balance between the two.

manachar 5y ago

The interesting part of simulation genres is finding out what you need to change to make it fun. What makes a simulation game fun varies per game. Stardew Valley could be described as a boring loop. EVE Online just yesterday made fans happy by getting official Microsoft Excel support. The key seems to be to have a particular hook and perspective. So, for a poverty simulator, you could embrace hustle culture and have people race to exploit loopholes in systems to maximize return. Alternatively, you could take a radical approach at start with the crush of poverty and embrace it something like a rogue-like where you will probably always lose, but this time maybe you get a little further. Whether you want to embrace it ridiculously like Binding of Isaac embraced evangelical childhood abuse or be something else works. Also worth remembering Papers, Please as a good example of a simulation making something "not fun" fun.

kennywinker 5y ago
> EVE Online just yesterday made fans happy by getting official Microsoft Excel support. That's the funniest single phrase I've read all day. Thank you for sharing that, it brought me great joy :)
- Bud 5y ago
  What's even funnier is, it's actually true.
NylaTheWolf 5y ago
I definitely agree with you about Papers, Please. It's literally about doing paperwork and it's one of the best games I've played.
nerdponx 5y ago
It also doesn't necessarily have to be "fun". I would argue that playing poverty simulator definitely should not ever be "fun". It might have plenty of educational or artistic value, though, which might be a good enough reason for some people to play it.