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Outcome is not opportunity. Those words are not synonyms. With equal opportunity people are free to make choices on how they live their lives. With equal out

by mulmen 5y ago

Outcome is not opportunity. Those words are not synonyms. With equal opportunity people are free to make choices on how they live their lives. With equal outcomes nothing an individual does matters. Failure is as valuable to society as success. We learn what works and what doesn’t. What is important in a free society is that everyone has a chance to try and that we have adequate safety nets in place so failures aren’t ruinous.

Buttons840 5y ago
Can you name one desirable outcome that is not also a desirable opportunity? If we draw a Venn diagram of desirable outcomes and desirable opportunities, and they exactly overlap, then what's the difference? I do agree with everything you said. I think I'm arguing philosophy and you're arguing more concrete economic policies. In realm of policy, I agree with you, in the realm of philosophy, I'm not sure I see a distinct difference between outcome and opportunity (see my first question).
- ghufran_syed 5y ago
  Consider a multitude of people who are going to buy food at a fast food place, and they all have $10 to spend. They all have the same opportunity to buy food there, but the outcomes (the actual items they buy) will likely be very different. If we then decide that "salads are good, meat is bad", then we can start to talk about "inequality of outcomes" with respect to salad eating. But is this really a problem? I would argue it's only a problem if we don't want humans exercising free will, and want to impose our "enlightened" views on them.
  - Buttons840 5y ago
    I was thinking of "outcomes" in a broader, more meaningful sense. Yes, if one person orders a red bracelet, and another orders a blue bracelet, they both had the opportunity but got different color bracelets. Is that a different "outcome"? I guess so, but it's not quite what I was referring to in my question. To continue your example, I think the outcome of the people's meals would be how the meal makes them feel. This is a real outcome rather than the illustrative "salad good, meat bad" dimension you propose. The people who ordered healthy food feel more energetic, and thus they have more opportunities for several hours, because they have energy while their colleagues are bloated and lethargic. Their equal opportunity resulted in unequal outcomes, which resulted in unequal opportunity. So, I'm still seeking a desirable outcome (beyond red bracelet / blue bracelet, and "salad good, meat bad") which does not also increase opportunity. My original question remains.
- deleted 5y ago
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by mulmen 5y ago

Buttons840 5y ago

Can you name one desirable outcome that is not also a desirable opportunity? If we draw a Venn diagram of desirable outcomes and desirable opportunities, and they exactly overlap, then what's the difference? I do agree with everything you said. I think I'm arguing philosophy and you're arguing more concrete economic policies. In realm of policy, I agree with you, in the realm of philosophy, I'm not sure I see a distinct difference between outcome and opportunity (see my first question).

ghufran_syed 5y ago
Consider a multitude of people who are going to buy food at a fast food place, and they all have $10 to spend. They all have the same opportunity to buy food there, but the outcomes (the actual items they buy) will likely be very different. If we then decide that "salads are good, meat is bad", then we can start to talk about "inequality of outcomes" with respect to salad eating. But is this really a problem? I would argue it's only a problem if we don't want humans exercising free will, and want to impose our "enlightened" views on them.
- Buttons840 5y ago
  I was thinking of "outcomes" in a broader, more meaningful sense. Yes, if one person orders a red bracelet, and another orders a blue bracelet, they both had the opportunity but got different color bracelets. Is that a different "outcome"? I guess so, but it's not quite what I was referring to in my question. To continue your example, I think the outcome of the people's meals would be how the meal makes them feel. This is a real outcome rather than the illustrative "salad good, meat bad" dimension you propose. The people who ordered healthy food feel more energetic, and thus they have more opportunities for several hours, because they have energy while their colleagues are bloated and lethargic. Their equal opportunity resulted in unequal outcomes, which resulted in unequal opportunity. So, I'm still seeking a desirable outcome (beyond red bracelet / blue bracelet, and "salad good, meat bad") which does not also increase opportunity. My original question remains.
deleted 5y ago
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