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Indeed. Look at China and Taiwan. The Chinese that fled to Taiwan at the end of their Civil War loaded boats with gold and wealth. They also were generally well

Indeed. Look at China and Taiwan. The Chinese that fled to Taiwan at the end of their Civil War loaded boats with gold and wealth. They also were generally well educated. A small island that stood and still stands.

endisneigh 4y ago
If it weren’t for the rest of the world couldn’t China easily crush Taiwan? Seems like a strange example. Wouldn’t a good example be one where the people who left basically ended up doing very poorly in the end?
- CapricornNoble 4y ago
  >>>If it weren’t for the rest of the world couldn’t China easily crush Taiwan? Short answer: not easily.
  - endisneigh 4y ago
    China would literally just nuke Taiwan and it's over. What do you mean not easily?
    - mschuster91 4y ago
      What would anyone want with a place that's been nuked to hell and back? Too much issues with fallout and the risk the rest of the world sanctions you into submission, and if you'd bomb it to pieces with conventional weaponry you would have to bomb down so much stuff that there isn't anything left worth invading. Even without the security agreements that Taiwan has, it's ridiculously hard to invade and take over if one does not want to bomb it to pieces: it being an island means it's extremely hard to land troops and supplies for them (Ukraine has shown that even without a navy, it is possible to sink ships or that it's perfectly possible to run an air force even after almost all infrastructure has been destroyed), and a highly motivated population can and will put up a fight. China is definitely looking at Ukraine - not just on how the Western world reacts at this clear break with any and all international rules on war, but also how a country under siege and its population behaves.
      - ptsneves 4y ago
        I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that China is looking at Ukraine. What it shows is that an invasion would set up a chain reaction that would disrupt international order with very negative effects for its economy and strategic goals. Obviously there will need to be another way. Diplomatically China has been getting good wins in "the other way". Russia also has nuclear weapons and even she does not use it for this invasion. Nuclear weapons have a great effect on public opinion including domestically as it is clearly a weapon of mass destruction/murder. Actually any form of offensive is faux pas and most beligerants avoid calling it a war. It is always framed as a defense of something, see Russian "special military operation", see American "liberation" of Afghanistan or Iraq. Likewise the Chinese would call it "taking it back" and a mere domestic affair. A nuke is clearly a form of total war. Dropping nukes is taken in the last resort doctrine, and there is no historical precedent of euphemism in its use. Speaking of which, a country's nuclear weapon usage doctrines are public so that coexistence can exist and mistakes do not happen. People talk as if commanders can consider nuclear weapons as standard part of the arsenal but that is not so. It is one of the few weapons which likely would lead to the total destruction and thus defeat of a state due to the Mutual assured destruction concept. A great example is the Pakistani nuclear weapon doctrine[1]. It is so clear that i almost wish all countries would have nuclear weapons. India and Pakistan would have had murderous wars if not for them. Instead they are the stick that allows for softer talk. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_doctrine_of_Pakistan#Levels_of_threshold https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_doctrine_of_Pakistan...
      - endisneigh 4y ago
        I’m not arguing politics - I’m simply stating that China’s military is superior to taiwans, which it is. Taiwan will not win a conflict with China, without intervention.
        mschuster91 4y ago
        Agreed, but the goal is not for Taiwan's army to fend off against the full might of the PLA - the goal is to show and build up enough strength to make the PLA pay a brutal price even for an attempt. Similar to Ukraine.

endisneigh 4y ago

If it weren’t for the rest of the world couldn’t China easily crush Taiwan? Seems like a strange example. Wouldn’t a good example be one where the people who left basically ended up doing very poorly in the end?

CapricornNoble 4y ago
>>>If it weren’t for the rest of the world couldn’t China easily crush Taiwan? Short answer: not easily.
- endisneigh 4y ago
  China would literally just nuke Taiwan and it's over. What do you mean not easily?
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    What would anyone want with a place that's been nuked to hell and back? Too much issues with fallout and the risk the rest of the world sanctions you into submission, and if you'd bomb it to pieces with conventional weaponry you would have to bomb down so much stuff that there isn't anything left worth invading. Even without the security agreements that Taiwan has, it's ridiculously hard to invade and take over if one does not want to bomb it to pieces: it being an island means it's extremely hard to land troops and supplies for them (Ukraine has shown that even without a navy, it is possible to sink ships or that it's perfectly possible to run an air force even after almost all infrastructure has been destroyed), and a highly motivated population can and will put up a fight. China is definitely looking at Ukraine - not just on how the Western world reacts at this clear break with any and all international rules on war, but also how a country under siege and its population behaves.
    - ptsneves 4y ago
      I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that China is looking at Ukraine. What it shows is that an invasion would set up a chain reaction that would disrupt international order with very negative effects for its economy and strategic goals. Obviously there will need to be another way. Diplomatically China has been getting good wins in "the other way". Russia also has nuclear weapons and even she does not use it for this invasion. Nuclear weapons have a great effect on public opinion including domestically as it is clearly a weapon of mass destruction/murder. Actually any form of offensive is faux pas and most beligerants avoid calling it a war. It is always framed as a defense of something, see Russian "special military operation", see American "liberation" of Afghanistan or Iraq. Likewise the Chinese would call it "taking it back" and a mere domestic affair. A nuke is clearly a form of total war. Dropping nukes is taken in the last resort doctrine, and there is no historical precedent of euphemism in its use. Speaking of which, a country's nuclear weapon usage doctrines are public so that coexistence can exist and mistakes do not happen. People talk as if commanders can consider nuclear weapons as standard part of the arsenal but that is not so. It is one of the few weapons which likely would lead to the total destruction and thus defeat of a state due to the Mutual assured destruction concept. A great example is the Pakistani nuclear weapon doctrine[1]. It is so clear that i almost wish all countries would have nuclear weapons. India and Pakistan would have had murderous wars if not for them. Instead they are the stick that allows for softer talk. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_doctrine_of_Pakistan#Levels_of_threshold https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_doctrine_of_Pakistan...
    - endisneigh 4y ago
      I’m not arguing politics - I’m simply stating that China’s military is superior to taiwans, which it is. Taiwan will not win a conflict with China, without intervention.
      - mschuster91 4y ago
        Agreed, but the goal is not for Taiwan's army to fend off against the full might of the PLA - the goal is to show and build up enough strength to make the PLA pay a brutal price even for an attempt. Similar to Ukraine.