5 ms·

In my anecdotal experience, it is not just ultra wealthy Americans trying to get second passports. We can't afford these investment visas, but because of our f

In my anecdotal experience, it is not just ultra wealthy Americans trying to get second passports. We can't afford these investment visas, but because of our fear that gay marriage rights may be repealed [0], my husband and I are exploring the possibility of Spanish citizenship via descent. It's unclear if we can even apply before my dad gets it or become citizens without at least a year of residency, but when my dad emailed a major consulate recently, they had an automated message saying there's a 5 day wait for return emails. Their listed phone number also had no response and went to voicemail with no automated message. My in laws are also looking into Mexican citizenship by descent. I am curious how many folks are fleeing states or looking into it, also. We've checked with our workplaces about relocating out of state (Texas). That seems a lot easier than figuring out visas, but we are really dreading about how far things are going to go. We're hoping for the best, preparing for the worst. I am sure it is not just UHNW individuals who are preparing. [0] See: https://nitter.net/NoLieWithBTC/status/1521912691824148482 https://nitter.net/NoLieWithBTC/status/1521912691824148482 https://nitter.net/BrynnTannehill/status/1521481078376181760 https://nitter.net/BrynnTannehill/status/1521481078376181760 and Google around for some op-eds. There's a lot of debate around this and whether stare decisis will outweigh the court's extreme views, but ultimately there's a lot of uncertainty.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Your in laws might be better served with Mexican permanent residency. The economic solvency requirements are reasonable (about $120k in a savings/investment/retirement account seasoned for a year), and once approved by a Mexican consulate in the US, the process moves very fast once you get to Mexico. There is no upkeep cost, you have it for life once obtained. The only downside is that if you bring a vehicle to Mexico from the US, even temporarily, you’re paying duty on the vehicle’s value.
- samstave 4y ago
  Serious question, can you drive a rental car to Mexico and not pay duty? For example, could you have a car here in the us and owned by your llc, or even a friends, and “rent it from them” and drive it around Mexico?
  - CogitoCogito 4y ago
    From San Diego, what I would do is just walk across the border and then rent the car there. If you are already going to rent it's just so much easier. Though I guess it could depend on the border crossing.
    - samstave 4y ago
      Yeah, I was hypothetically asking about renting a car from a company I, or a friend, owns...
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    You need a letter of permission from a rental car company to allow the rental into Mexico. Most rental car companies won’t issue it; the ones who do have a border arrangement with Mexico. If it has foreign plates, you’re paying duty if you’re permanent. https://www.mexperience.com/bringing-foreign-plated-cars-into-mexico/ https://www.mexperience.com/bringing-foreign-plated-cars-int...
- AtlasBarfed 4y ago
  Seriously where in Mexico is it safe to live? Especially if you scream "rich kidnappable Americans"? Anecdotal: Mt friend had two housekeepete from Mexico who were saving to buy air BNB so they could go back to Mexico. They visited Mexico and were found dead executed on the side of the road.
  - mjh2539 4y ago
    Mexico City. Just don't do the dumb risque stuff Americans take for granted as reasonable (going out late alone, doing drugs, etc.).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - aiisjustanif 4y ago
    Tulum, Oaxaca, Mazatlan, Monterey, and other places. Legit never had a problem. Just as scary as the US can be and just as nice. Sorry to hear that. Visiting where?
    - AtlasBarfed 4y ago
      I was doing the mobile phone typing. The housekeepers were immigrants and saving up to open AirBnB properties in Mexico as their next salary/profession/business. They were going down to check on what they were investing in or actually buy the properties or something similar to that. I don't know where it was. It was probably close to one of the vacation areas which are supposed to be safer. Not sure if it was their home town / area or not. And then there are stories like this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/shooting-mexico-beach-resort-2-killed-tourists-run/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/shooting-mexico-beach-resort-2-... I suppose you can point to killings in the US and turf wars and the like, but ... the vacation areas are supposed to be more heavily policed / controlled since they are such huge profit centers.
jhugo 4y ago
There are many countries with investment visas with much lower requirements, it may be worth broadening the search a little.
giantg2 4y ago
"I am curious how many folks are fleeing states or looking into it, also." I'm curious about this too. Are there any past examples or studies about similar situations and migration (segregation, interracial marriage, "legal" pot, gun laws, etc)? I couldn't find anything in a quick search. Just in my personal experience it seems very few people actually move and just talk about it, especially if they talk about leaving the country, like with a specific president winning an election.
gehwartzen 4y ago
I am sorry you are going through this. I have dual citizenship in Germany/US which certainly gives me a certain feeling of comfort as having a way out should I feel I need it. For me personally its not gay rights, though those are still very important to me. I would cast your net as wide as possible in looking at various countries that have laws/cultures that are more aligned with your own; some might have much more lax citizenship requirements than others. But as with everything there is usually a trade off. Moving out of state might also work of course, and it will hopefully over time send a strong message to states like Texas. Good Luck one way or the other. PS: btw if you do leave the state, send a quick email to all your reps and perhaps those on the other side of the isle to let them know why you are leaving and how much you contributed to the local economy in order to send a strong message. Might help those left behind in Texas who are in a similar situation to you but have less means to move.
samstave 4y ago
What are the costs and restrictions of getting a passport in another country? Taxes? Annual reporting of some such? What happens if your American passport expires, can you fly on whatever foreign one you have only? Or do you need to present your US passport when leaving the US and your foreign one when arriving some place? Can you fly back into the US only using your Spanish passport? Would you have to reveal at the border that you are a US citizen? Or just show your foreign one and not mention US citizenship?
- codeofdusk 4y ago
  > Taxes? Annual reporting of some such? US citizens are required to report all worldwide income for taxation. Elsewhere, requirements to pay tax generally depend on residing in the country for some number of days per year. > do you need to present your US passport when leaving the US and your foreign one when arriving some place? Yes. > Would you have to reveal at the border that you are a US citizen? At the US border, yes. If, say, you have a European passport and you're entering Europe, you present the European one.
- dagw 4y ago
  What happens if your American passport expires, can you fly on whatever foreign one you have only? As long as you don't fly to the US. US citizens need a valid US passport to enter the US, even if they also have another passport[1]. Entering the US is literally the only thing I use my US passport for and the only reason I get it renewed. [1] I guess you can try to lie on your visa/ESTA application and hope they don't notice, but I wouldn't recommend it.
gcanyon 4y ago
I haven’t looked at Spain, but Portugal doesn’t require you to be wealthy — but you do have to live there most of the time for five years.

toomuchtodo 4y ago

Your in laws might be better served with Mexican permanent residency. The economic solvency requirements are reasonable (about $120k in a savings/investment/retirement account seasoned for a year), and once approved by a Mexican consulate in the US, the process moves very fast once you get to Mexico. There is no upkeep cost, you have it for life once obtained. The only downside is that if you bring a vehicle to Mexico from the US, even temporarily, you’re paying duty on the vehicle’s value.

samstave 4y ago
Serious question, can you drive a rental car to Mexico and not pay duty? For example, could you have a car here in the us and owned by your llc, or even a friends, and “rent it from them” and drive it around Mexico?
- CogitoCogito 4y ago
  From San Diego, what I would do is just walk across the border and then rent the car there. If you are already going to rent it's just so much easier. Though I guess it could depend on the border crossing.
  - samstave 4y ago
    Yeah, I was hypothetically asking about renting a car from a company I, or a friend, owns...
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  You need a letter of permission from a rental car company to allow the rental into Mexico. Most rental car companies won’t issue it; the ones who do have a border arrangement with Mexico. If it has foreign plates, you’re paying duty if you’re permanent. https://www.mexperience.com/bringing-foreign-plated-cars-into-mexico/ https://www.mexperience.com/bringing-foreign-plated-cars-int...
AtlasBarfed 4y ago
Seriously where in Mexico is it safe to live? Especially if you scream "rich kidnappable Americans"? Anecdotal: Mt friend had two housekeepete from Mexico who were saving to buy air BNB so they could go back to Mexico. They visited Mexico and were found dead executed on the side of the road.
- mjh2539 4y ago
  Mexico City. Just don't do the dumb risque stuff Americans take for granted as reasonable (going out late alone, doing drugs, etc.).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- aiisjustanif 4y ago
  Tulum, Oaxaca, Mazatlan, Monterey, and other places. Legit never had a problem. Just as scary as the US can be and just as nice. Sorry to hear that. Visiting where?
  - AtlasBarfed 4y ago
    I was doing the mobile phone typing. The housekeepers were immigrants and saving up to open AirBnB properties in Mexico as their next salary/profession/business. They were going down to check on what they were investing in or actually buy the properties or something similar to that. I don't know where it was. It was probably close to one of the vacation areas which are supposed to be safer. Not sure if it was their home town / area or not. And then there are stories like this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/shooting-mexico-beach-resort-2-killed-tourists-run/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/shooting-mexico-beach-resort-2-... I suppose you can point to killings in the US and turf wars and the like, but ... the vacation areas are supposed to be more heavily policed / controlled since they are such huge profit centers.

jhugo 4y ago

There are many countries with investment visas with much lower requirements, it may be worth broadening the search a little.

giantg2 4y ago

"I am curious how many folks are fleeing states or looking into it, also." I'm curious about this too. Are there any past examples or studies about similar situations and migration (segregation, interracial marriage, "legal" pot, gun laws, etc)? I couldn't find anything in a quick search. Just in my personal experience it seems very few people actually move and just talk about it, especially if they talk about leaving the country, like with a specific president winning an election.

gehwartzen 4y ago

I am sorry you are going through this. I have dual citizenship in Germany/US which certainly gives me a certain feeling of comfort as having a way out should I feel I need it. For me personally its not gay rights, though those are still very important to me. I would cast your net as wide as possible in looking at various countries that have laws/cultures that are more aligned with your own; some might have much more lax citizenship requirements than others. But as with everything there is usually a trade off. Moving out of state might also work of course, and it will hopefully over time send a strong message to states like Texas. Good Luck one way or the other. PS: btw if you do leave the state, send a quick email to all your reps and perhaps those on the other side of the isle to let them know why you are leaving and how much you contributed to the local economy in order to send a strong message. Might help those left behind in Texas who are in a similar situation to you but have less means to move.

samstave 4y ago

What are the costs and restrictions of getting a passport in another country? Taxes? Annual reporting of some such? What happens if your American passport expires, can you fly on whatever foreign one you have only? Or do you need to present your US passport when leaving the US and your foreign one when arriving some place? Can you fly back into the US only using your Spanish passport? Would you have to reveal at the border that you are a US citizen? Or just show your foreign one and not mention US citizenship?

codeofdusk 4y ago
> Taxes? Annual reporting of some such? US citizens are required to report all worldwide income for taxation. Elsewhere, requirements to pay tax generally depend on residing in the country for some number of days per year. > do you need to present your US passport when leaving the US and your foreign one when arriving some place? Yes. > Would you have to reveal at the border that you are a US citizen? At the US border, yes. If, say, you have a European passport and you're entering Europe, you present the European one.
dagw 4y ago
What happens if your American passport expires, can you fly on whatever foreign one you have only? As long as you don't fly to the US. US citizens need a valid US passport to enter the US, even if they also have another passport[1]. Entering the US is literally the only thing I use my US passport for and the only reason I get it renewed. [1] I guess you can try to lie on your visa/ESTA application and hope they don't notice, but I wouldn't recommend it.

gcanyon 4y ago

I haven’t looked at Spain, but Portugal doesn’t require you to be wealthy — but you do have to live there most of the time for five years.