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"Seems to me you’re more likely to see success with a radical life change. Moving far away to a different lifestyle." I'm not so sure. People tend to take the

"Seems to me you’re more likely to see success with a radical life change. Moving far away to a different lifestyle." I'm not so sure. People tend to take their problems with them. Changing external circumstances may help some, but even then the improvement tends to be short-lived until their demons come back to haunt them. Severe depression is rarely so easily cured. "Many people cite stats about how previously suicidal people are glad they didn’t commit suicide successfully but it’s got obvious survivor bias from those that did and don’t get a say." I've never attempted suicide (and if I ever did I'd make sure to succeed), but have felt suicidal throughout most of my life. Am I glad I never did it? Only to the extent that I'm glad I didn't traumatize or ruin the lives of people who care about me. If it wasn't for my reluctance to indirectly hurt people who care about me I'd be gone long ago. Best for me is to have never been born at all. I think a lot of people are only alive because they don't want to hurt people close to them. I very much doubt a failed suicide attempt would change my mind on any of this. It would just have led to more misery for me and the people who care about me. I've seen interviews with suicide survivors who regret trying, and they've tended to be people who just acted impulsively and didn't think through the consequences (teens are a prime example of this). People like me who've thought carefully about it for years or decades are unlikely to fail and unlikely to be glad they survived if they somehow fail anyway.

wintermutestwin 5y ago
>People tend to take their problems with them. Changing external circumstances may help some, but even then the improvement tends to be short-lived until their demons come back to haunt them. Severe depression is rarely so easily cured. The context here is teens. Of course the majority of them have underlying "demons," but combining that with the bleak realities of having to decide what to do with your adult life while having drastically limited perspective on your choices is a huge trapdoor that needs to be avoided before they can get to higher levels of self repair.
mdp2021 5y ago
> Changing external circumstances may help some, but even then No, it really must depend on what makes one suicidal. A cannot bear his environment, B is afflicted with a chronic pain, C practices inadequate self management, D relives traumas, etc.: if A improves diet, starts to exercise, solves the nuisance of a bad back and hindered sleep, then his situation will improve and yet he will go on hating his life after his own environment - but if A finds an environment that matches his personality and aspirations, he will probably be "happy" (literally - living the fortunate occurrence) even in spite of bearing other "nuisances". It does not seem logical otherwise. It should probably be noted ("just to be sure" in terms of communication) that a number of those conditions may not have a practically easy solution. Also, that an absolute condition of suicidal tendency is not the only cause for suicide.
- jotm 5y ago
  The "what" is way trickier than that. I was suicidal for ~15 years, no matter if things were going well or badly. There were years when things were perfect, awesome, but I was still depressed. I've tried all the "normie" shit, I really did. My brain is simply fucked. The only thing that worked is medication (and not the standard ones, what I'm taking would not even be considered by most doctors in Europe - but it would in the US). The dumbest thing here is I would be put in prison if anyone found out. Now I've mostly fixed depression and anxiety, the only thing remaining is my attention/self-control - ADHD, and illegal stimulants work for that but they're not quite enough, I need to be very careful to take them under specific circumstances so I can form new habits and retrain my brain. I'm basically doing Cognitive Behavioural Therapy all on my own. This is pretty bad - when you fuck up for decades, it's extremely hard to better yourself, especially when you realize just how badly things went.
  - mdp2021 5y ago
    I understand, but > The "what" is way trickier than that The "what" /may be/ way trickier than that. Not all suicidal tendencies come from an "effed brain" (in your terms). The statement from pmoriarty does not have universal validity - it's actually substantially false -, and it is a bad point of view with regard to those for whom solutions to their afflictions exist.
  - JPLeRouzic 5y ago
    > The only thing that worked is medication (and not the standard ones Please could you share what worked for you? If you do not want to do it publicly, I would appreciate if you email me this medication (my mail is in my profile). Just to clarify things, I am not suicidal, but someone I know is.
jotm 5y ago
I've attempted it several times. Hell, I still have the stuff that can kill me painlessly... from what I understood, I still kinda doubt it and fear surviving it and getting brain/organ damage. That's worse than dying! But I could never go through with it, survival instinct is a bitch and I'm basically a coward. I would still be happy if I got killed quickly somehow. Surviving an attempt would most likely make me feel even more like a loser. Note that I never did it for attention - I told no one, no one knew. They'd be as shocked as my parents when I told them I was heavily bullied throughout school.

wintermutestwin 5y ago

>People tend to take their problems with them. Changing external circumstances may help some, but even then the improvement tends to be short-lived until their demons come back to haunt them. Severe depression is rarely so easily cured. The context here is teens. Of course the majority of them have underlying "demons," but combining that with the bleak realities of having to decide what to do with your adult life while having drastically limited perspective on your choices is a huge trapdoor that needs to be avoided before they can get to higher levels of self repair.

mdp2021 5y ago

> Changing external circumstances may help some, but even then No, it really must depend on what makes one suicidal. A cannot bear his environment, B is afflicted with a chronic pain, C practices inadequate self management, D relives traumas, etc.: if A improves diet, starts to exercise, solves the nuisance of a bad back and hindered sleep, then his situation will improve and yet he will go on hating his life after his own environment - but if A finds an environment that matches his personality and aspirations, he will probably be "happy" (literally - living the fortunate occurrence) even in spite of bearing other "nuisances". It does not seem logical otherwise. It should probably be noted ("just to be sure" in terms of communication) that a number of those conditions may not have a practically easy solution. Also, that an absolute condition of suicidal tendency is not the only cause for suicide.

jotm 5y ago
The "what" is way trickier than that. I was suicidal for ~15 years, no matter if things were going well or badly. There were years when things were perfect, awesome, but I was still depressed. I've tried all the "normie" shit, I really did. My brain is simply fucked. The only thing that worked is medication (and not the standard ones, what I'm taking would not even be considered by most doctors in Europe - but it would in the US). The dumbest thing here is I would be put in prison if anyone found out. Now I've mostly fixed depression and anxiety, the only thing remaining is my attention/self-control - ADHD, and illegal stimulants work for that but they're not quite enough, I need to be very careful to take them under specific circumstances so I can form new habits and retrain my brain. I'm basically doing Cognitive Behavioural Therapy all on my own. This is pretty bad - when you fuck up for decades, it's extremely hard to better yourself, especially when you realize just how badly things went.
- mdp2021 5y ago
  I understand, but > The "what" is way trickier than that The "what" /may be/ way trickier than that. Not all suicidal tendencies come from an "effed brain" (in your terms). The statement from pmoriarty does not have universal validity - it's actually substantially false -, and it is a bad point of view with regard to those for whom solutions to their afflictions exist.
- JPLeRouzic 5y ago
  > The only thing that worked is medication (and not the standard ones Please could you share what worked for you? If you do not want to do it publicly, I would appreciate if you email me this medication (my mail is in my profile). Just to clarify things, I am not suicidal, but someone I know is.

jotm 5y ago

I've attempted it several times. Hell, I still have the stuff that can kill me painlessly... from what I understood, I still kinda doubt it and fear surviving it and getting brain/organ damage. That's worse than dying! But I could never go through with it, survival instinct is a bitch and I'm basically a coward. I would still be happy if I got killed quickly somehow. Surviving an attempt would most likely make me feel even more like a loser. Note that I never did it for attention - I told no one, no one knew. They'd be as shocked as my parents when I told them I was heavily bullied throughout school.