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> there are "four C's" currently driving the investor citizenship industry: COVID-19, climate change, cryptocurrency, and conflict One of these is not like the

> there are "four C's" currently driving the investor citizenship industry: COVID-19, climate change, cryptocurrency, and conflict One of these is not like the others – is someone able to legally avoid US taxes from selling cryptocurrency by holding another citizenship?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dubswithus 4y ago
> One of these is not like the others – is someone able to legally avoid US taxes from selling cryptocurrency by holding another citizenship? Not unless they renounce their US citizenship and pay the exit tax.
cm2187 4y ago
Hum, not sure you can avoid climate change or covid by moving either. You might escape climate change and covid policies though.
- hedora 4y ago
  You could look at climate projections and figure out which areas are less screwed than the US. I wouldn't bet on Europe; the Atlantic currents are near a tipping point where they shut down. That'll cover most of Western Europe in a glacier if it happens. (Go look up European cities' latitudes; the fossil record also backs up this concern.) Moving to avoid covid policies seems secondary vs. what the Supreme Court is likely to do in the next decade (especially after more justices are appointed by minority-elected presidents and senates).
qgin 4y ago
Not a lot of overlap between people concerned with legality and crypto-wealthy seeking multiple passports.
fredgrott 4y ago
Nope, the only way to avoid US taxes is to give up US citizenship
TrackerFF 4y ago
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesfinancecouncil/2021/11/03/when-might-renouncing-us-citizenship-make-sense-from-a-tax-point-of-view/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesfinancecouncil/2021/11/03... To renounce, you first have to meet several criteria: • You must hold citizenship of another country, so you don’t become stateless. • You have to be up-to-date with your U.S. tax filing, with the past five years submitted. • You have to attend an exit interview at your nearest U.S. consulate or embassy. • You have to pay a $2,350 renunciation fee. • If you have financial assets worth over $2 million, you may have to pay a one-off exit tax calculated as a capital gains tax as if you sold all of your assets on the day you renounced. --- At least two of those points seem to be pretty prohibitive, if your goal is to avoid taxes on money already earned...
- immigrantheart 4y ago
  What if your assets are less than $2 million?
  - sgjohnson 4y ago
    Then it’s probably not worth to renounce the US citizenship, and you’d be shooting yourself in the foot if you did.
    - immigrantheart 4y ago
      How so? You can retire comfortably today in SEA countries with $2 million in bank account.
      - sgjohnson 4y ago
        Why renounce the US citizenship, if you’re retiring? There’s only one benefit from renouncing the US citizenship. You’re no longer a tax resident. There’s also a $112k+inflation/year exemption for foreign earned income for non-residents. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore... So if you’re renouncing your citizenship for tax reasons, it’s very unlikely that it’s going to be worth it, if you’ve got under $2m in assets. Not to mention that if you decide to return to the US, not only have to go through the US immigation system, but you also won’t clear a background check, because people who renounce their US citizenship are entered into the NICS system.
pzh 4y ago
Not legally, but presumably it’s harder to get caught if you have another citizenship in a country that doesn’t tax crypto.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

dubswithus 4y ago

> One of these is not like the others – is someone able to legally avoid US taxes from selling cryptocurrency by holding another citizenship? Not unless they renounce their US citizenship and pay the exit tax.

cm2187 4y ago

Hum, not sure you can avoid climate change or covid by moving either. You might escape climate change and covid policies though.

hedora 4y ago
You could look at climate projections and figure out which areas are less screwed than the US. I wouldn't bet on Europe; the Atlantic currents are near a tipping point where they shut down. That'll cover most of Western Europe in a glacier if it happens. (Go look up European cities' latitudes; the fossil record also backs up this concern.) Moving to avoid covid policies seems secondary vs. what the Supreme Court is likely to do in the next decade (especially after more justices are appointed by minority-elected presidents and senates).

qgin 4y ago

Not a lot of overlap between people concerned with legality and crypto-wealthy seeking multiple passports.

fredgrott 4y ago

Nope, the only way to avoid US taxes is to give up US citizenship

TrackerFF 4y ago

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesfinancecouncil/2021/11/03/when-might-renouncing-us-citizenship-make-sense-from-a-tax-point-of-view/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesfinancecouncil/2021/11/03... To renounce, you first have to meet several criteria: • You must hold citizenship of another country, so you don’t become stateless. • You have to be up-to-date with your U.S. tax filing, with the past five years submitted. • You have to attend an exit interview at your nearest U.S. consulate or embassy. • You have to pay a $2,350 renunciation fee. • If you have financial assets worth over $2 million, you may have to pay a one-off exit tax calculated as a capital gains tax as if you sold all of your assets on the day you renounced. --- At least two of those points seem to be pretty prohibitive, if your goal is to avoid taxes on money already earned...

immigrantheart 4y ago
What if your assets are less than $2 million?
- sgjohnson 4y ago
  Then it’s probably not worth to renounce the US citizenship, and you’d be shooting yourself in the foot if you did.
  - immigrantheart 4y ago
    How so? You can retire comfortably today in SEA countries with $2 million in bank account.
    - sgjohnson 4y ago
      Why renounce the US citizenship, if you’re retiring? There’s only one benefit from renouncing the US citizenship. You’re no longer a tax resident. There’s also a $112k+inflation/year exemption for foreign earned income for non-residents. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore... So if you’re renouncing your citizenship for tax reasons, it’s very unlikely that it’s going to be worth it, if you’ve got under $2m in assets. Not to mention that if you decide to return to the US, not only have to go through the US immigation system, but you also won’t clear a background check, because people who renounce their US citizenship are entered into the NICS system.

pzh 4y ago

Not legally, but presumably it’s harder to get caught if you have another citizenship in a country that doesn’t tax crypto.