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Thanks for posting this. It takes a lot of balls (even with a throwaway account) to post something like this and, hopefully, only good will come out of it. If t
by edw519 15y ago
Thanks for posting this. It takes a lot of balls (even with a throwaway account) to post something like this and, hopefully, only good will come out of it. If this thread goes like these kinds of threads usually go on Hacker News, I have no doubt you will have helped quite a few others with this. And hopefully, you will get help too. But that won't be easy. Here's why...
When I read your headline on the front page, the first thing I thought was, "OK, someone to help and encourage. Good." After I read your comment, I didn't feel quite the same way.
I normally try to be upbeat and positive, but in your case, it won't sound that way. I'm going to give it to you straight and I hope that you don't get offended or upset. You need feedback from my point of view.
It's perfectly normal for someone to be weak technically or with other people. It's perfectly normal for someone to struggle with work habits, project management, or personal issues. It's also perfectly normal for excellent people to have been fired. Many of us have been on both sides of these issues.
And these are the kinds of things that are easily managed and fixed.
Your issues, unfortunately, run deeper. Conflicts with bosses? OK, we've all been there. Not getting along? That happens, too. A negative assessment of your boss? Whoa. That would piss me off, too. Why didn't you just talk to him? Refusing to work on a project? WTF? That's your fucking job!
These are the kinds of things that are not easily managed and fixed. I don't know why anyone would take a chance on someone with this kind of track performance. I know that I wouldn't. I'd much rather hire a weak performer with good attitude and potential than a strong performer with interpersonal issues you describe. It's just not worth the trouble.
You most telling remark, however, was:
Another obstacle is that I'm an introvert loner and hence just the opposite of the "communicative teamplayer" companies seem to be looking for.
As one introvert loner to another, I can confidently tell you that this is just an excuse. Almost all of us are introvert loners and almost all employers want "communicative teamplayers". And most of us just find a way to make it work.
I bet I've been in situations like yours (and worse) far more times than you and I bet many others here have too. I've been abused more ways than I care to remember. I've done the work of 5 people and been passed up for promotion. I've worked overtime for years and got no credit. I've been yelled at, cussed at, and many times, generally treated like shit. But I've learned how to put up with it until it's no longer time to put up with it. It all depends where you draw the line.
I've never had words with a boss or customer. I've never emailed, talked about someone else, or filled out any form about them without talking to them first. And most of all, I've never refused work. That's our reason for being there in the first place.
Any ideas on how to get back into the working world with such a track record?
I may sound negative, but believe me, I really want to help. So here are a few thoughts:
1. The root cause of your negative experiences is probably still there. You need to identify that cause, understand your role, and fix it. Get help with that if you think you need it. The good news: you know there's a problem and you're already talking about it. You may be 90% of the way there.
2. Always tell the truth.
3. Don't be afraid to admit that you may have been wrong.
4. Be prepared to describe your experiences (truthfully always!) and what steps you have already taken to grow because of them.
5. Don't volunteer (in writing or in person) anything that you don't have to that can potentially hurt you.
6. Never give references until after you have a job offer (contingent upon those references).
7. Find a way to have a positive attitude and make it show.
8. Understand that there are assholes everywhere and you will surely encounter many more. You can't control them. But you must control yourself. Don't let them fuck you up any more.
I hope I haven't been too tough, but I think you needed to hear this. I wish you the best and look forward to hearing about you getting up on your feet again. If you want to refute anything I have said or need any follow-up feedback, please contact me off-line. Best wishes!
- 0x12 15y agoBut he did post here and he asked for input. So even if none of us would likely give the man/woman a chance based on their admitted attitude (and that's not what is being asked) the input is what matters. And input like yours is exactly what might make the difference when he or she interacts with potential employers next time. As a non-team player that manages to successfully fake it (within limits) I think that even that can be turned into an asset. Refusing work that you are paid to do for is a firing offense all over the world. But circumstances do matter and since they're not provided I'm going to at least reserve judgment on whether or not there were any mitigating circumstances. For the record, I once refused to do a job that was technically within my abilities and job description. The only reason that job was given to me was as a revenge action for speaking up against a superior on an earlier occasion. Fortunately for me I had enough credit by then to be able to refuse the job and get away with it but technically that would have been the perfect pretext to fire me. Growth is a process. Posts like these are part of that process, so I have plenty of hope that the OP will eventually manage to find his way, and improving on his communications skills would seem to be the first order of battle. Even saying 'no' is a sales job.
- abbasmehdi 15y agoEd (edw519) recently gave us the I'm going to give it to you straight and I hope that you don't get offended or upset routine and after working with him we came out a million times better. If you are sincerely looking to improve your situation then you have my recommendation to take Ed up on his offer.
- throwaway789a 15y agoThanks for your thoughtful answer. It contains a lot of things I have to think about. And no, it wasn't too tough, it is the kind of feedback I was looking for. One clarification: > A negative assessment of your boss? Whoa. That would piss me off, too. Why didn't you just talk to him? Filling out the assessment form was a required preparation for the yearly staff appraisal. You fill it out, give it to your boss and then you discuss it with him at the meeting. Though the discussion never happened in my case.
- abbasmehdi 15y ago