3 ms·

At first glance, the keyboard layout? The QWERTY layout has been around for much longer than this machine, so why not use it? The screen is barely readable too

At first glance, the keyboard layout? The QWERTY layout has been around for much longer than this machine, so why not use it? The screen is barely readable too. I'm sure the software is equally terrible and slow as hell.

padjo 5y ago
We have similar machines here and the input is extremely unreliable and laggy, I.e buttons work maybe 30% of the time and it takes about a second to perform an action. I’m sure you can imagine how frustrating that is to use the first few times.
- noirbot 5y ago
  Yea, this is, in some ways, the biggest UX issue, though something the designer likely had no control over. These machines are just unbearably slow, and I have no idea why. It seems crazy that something like typing in your plate number would take most of a second per character, which is made even worse by a lack of feedback if the button press was accepted, so you often double-type, which leads to corrections, which also take forever.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    I think the problem is that the implementation of the system is outsourced to companies who have more expertise navigating government bureaucracy than actually building good software. All the money gets spent on papers and endless meetings (and maybe passed under the table if not outright handed over if in a jurisdiction where corruption aka "lobbying" is legal) so there isn't much left to pay to attract & retain good talent. A few months/years down the line, even the sub-par talent working on it will probably realize how terrible their product is, but speaking up would be akin to admitting defeat (and might have career risks), so nobody says anything and congratulates themselves for having "delivered" the project. When the end client receives the deliverable the same situation applies, it's too late to backpedal even though the product is shit, so they also keep quiet and pretend like it is fine.
adhesive_wombat 5y ago
For that kind of long-lived, low-maintainance, high-abuse machine, you can't just slap in a nice-looking OLED screen from AliBaba, you have to find one that you have confidence that will still work after 10 years in the sun while being abused daily by the public. Also at the time the system was designed (possibly pre-smartphones), I remember lots of machines like it, incurring train ticket machines with touchscreen keyboards, had alphabetical keyboards. I suspect there was a recommendation that not everyone, such as very old people, would be familiar with QWERTY. I also suspect that in the intervening decade or so, it was realised that actually no-one can use a 2D alphabetical layout at all, because the alphabet is linear and presenting it a grid didn't work. So actually alphabetical is pretty bad for everyone. But it's also the lowest common denominator. Sadly, once you've shipped a device like this, no one will pay you to go around and replace very expensive ruggedised keyboards just to make typing easier.
- moron4hire 5y ago
  Except that's not what is actually put in these things. It's still just whatever is the cheapest thing on Alibaba. Looks good in the meetings with city council, but give it a few months outside and it becomes nearly unreadable.
- lbriner 5y ago
  Why does it have to work for 10 years? Make the parts replaceable and service the machines. The machines in the shade work for 10 years and those in the sun get a £5 replacement every 6 months.
  - adhesive_wombat 5y ago
    A low-volume replacement screen assembly, even with a bottom tier screen, will not be £5. Even just having the machine company receive the part and forward it on without any testing, further assembly, or anything would cost more than that in postage alone. Plus the service fee for getting a service technician out to the machine (I imagine at least £100 a visit), plus the admin overhead of detecting failures and scheduling visits and lost downtime income would make that an extremely hard sell to a council. Hundreds of pounds per machine per year. And then multiply by every other element that you skimp on, and the thing will be broken continuously after the first 6 months, while sapping thousands in parts and labour.
defanor 5y ago
The alphabet has been around for even longer though. QWERTY, along with key staggering, seems to be useful for backwards compatibility with typewriters, or perhaps with those who learned on backwards-compatible computer keyboards, but this keyboard isn't close to that of a typewriter either way, not likely to be used any similarly. And I suspect that random people on a street are more likely to know the alphabet, rather than the QWERTY layout. The screen indeed looks like it'd be tricky and annoying to read.

padjo 5y ago

We have similar machines here and the input is extremely unreliable and laggy, I.e buttons work maybe 30% of the time and it takes about a second to perform an action. I’m sure you can imagine how frustrating that is to use the first few times.

noirbot 5y ago
Yea, this is, in some ways, the biggest UX issue, though something the designer likely had no control over. These machines are just unbearably slow, and I have no idea why. It seems crazy that something like typing in your plate number would take most of a second per character, which is made even worse by a lack of feedback if the button press was accepted, so you often double-type, which leads to corrections, which also take forever.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  I think the problem is that the implementation of the system is outsourced to companies who have more expertise navigating government bureaucracy than actually building good software. All the money gets spent on papers and endless meetings (and maybe passed under the table if not outright handed over if in a jurisdiction where corruption aka "lobbying" is legal) so there isn't much left to pay to attract & retain good talent. A few months/years down the line, even the sub-par talent working on it will probably realize how terrible their product is, but speaking up would be akin to admitting defeat (and might have career risks), so nobody says anything and congratulates themselves for having "delivered" the project. When the end client receives the deliverable the same situation applies, it's too late to backpedal even though the product is shit, so they also keep quiet and pretend like it is fine.

adhesive_wombat 5y ago

For that kind of long-lived, low-maintainance, high-abuse machine, you can't just slap in a nice-looking OLED screen from AliBaba, you have to find one that you have confidence that will still work after 10 years in the sun while being abused daily by the public. Also at the time the system was designed (possibly pre-smartphones), I remember lots of machines like it, incurring train ticket machines with touchscreen keyboards, had alphabetical keyboards. I suspect there was a recommendation that not everyone, such as very old people, would be familiar with QWERTY. I also suspect that in the intervening decade or so, it was realised that actually no-one can use a 2D alphabetical layout at all, because the alphabet is linear and presenting it a grid didn't work. So actually alphabetical is pretty bad for everyone. But it's also the lowest common denominator. Sadly, once you've shipped a device like this, no one will pay you to go around and replace very expensive ruggedised keyboards just to make typing easier.

moron4hire 5y ago
Except that's not what is actually put in these things. It's still just whatever is the cheapest thing on Alibaba. Looks good in the meetings with city council, but give it a few months outside and it becomes nearly unreadable.
lbriner 5y ago
Why does it have to work for 10 years? Make the parts replaceable and service the machines. The machines in the shade work for 10 years and those in the sun get a £5 replacement every 6 months.
- adhesive_wombat 5y ago
  A low-volume replacement screen assembly, even with a bottom tier screen, will not be £5. Even just having the machine company receive the part and forward it on without any testing, further assembly, or anything would cost more than that in postage alone. Plus the service fee for getting a service technician out to the machine (I imagine at least £100 a visit), plus the admin overhead of detecting failures and scheduling visits and lost downtime income would make that an extremely hard sell to a council. Hundreds of pounds per machine per year. And then multiply by every other element that you skimp on, and the thing will be broken continuously after the first 6 months, while sapping thousands in parts and labour.

defanor 5y ago

The alphabet has been around for even longer though. QWERTY, along with key staggering, seems to be useful for backwards compatibility with typewriters, or perhaps with those who learned on backwards-compatible computer keyboards, but this keyboard isn't close to that of a typewriter either way, not likely to be used any similarly. And I suspect that random people on a street are more likely to know the alphabet, rather than the QWERTY layout. The screen indeed looks like it'd be tricky and annoying to read.