5 ms·

It always baffles me that companies which struggle hiring, can take the decision to reject a candidate like him during the screening process ...

by polote 4y ago

lloydatkinson 4y ago
Reminds me of this https://twitter.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768?lang=en https://twitter.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768?lang=en
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
This is way more common than you think and it seems like it's a tragedy of the commons. Companies struggle to hire, yet have crazy demands and interview practices that filter out good candidates with potential, because they're looking for the 'perfect candidate', whatever that means to them. From my experience, the whole shortage in this industry is mostly companies being too picky, because they're afraid of the small chance of letting in a less ideal candidate. And I'm not even talking about unicorns/FAANGs/big-tech, but regular companies.
- ushakov 4y ago
  yeah but we need to pretend there’s a shortage, so we can import cheap slave-like labour from third-world countries
  - scarface74 4y ago
    There is nothing “cheap” about how much companies pay most H1Bs compared to the average salary in the US. Now the policies and regulations around how they are treated is a different story.
lbriner 4y ago
What is baffling? OP explains that they didn't have certain things on their CV. If I was hiring for a JS app and the applicant was all Java or .Net, it is no disrespect to them to filter them out at the CV stage. I can only speak for myself but as a Dev of 20 years, mainly in .Net (but with Java, Obj-C, PHP and JS experience) I wouldn't dream of applying for a JS job because despite the trope, it is not easy for a Senior to switch languages and just pick it up.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  I'm going to rail against this. The far majority of tools are not so obscenely complex you can't learn the majority of it. The far majority of jobs are not so obscenely difficult you need the bleeding edge implementations available in those tools. Looking online, the amount of information available to do what you want is insane. There's almost always someone who has already done things, especially for technologies older than a few years. This is even more problematic considering this selection is done on framework and library level as well, and many other tools. At the same time, making a tech stack is much like creating an ice cream cone with thousands of flavors, decorations and even cones available. Language agnosticism and general intelligence should be applauded far more than the industry currently does. Many toolmakers are doing their best to make using their tools as seamless as possible, and they are doing a good job at it.
  - dotBen 4y ago
    Sure, and if I may I'll politely rail back as a former hiring manager... :D I have no doubt that the senior software engineer with plenty of .net/python/whatever experience could pick up the needed JS if they were given the position. But there's going to be extended ramp up time as they familiarize themselves, they won't know the libraries let alone their intricacies and idiosyncrasies etc, they won't have a lot of language specific fresh approaches and experience to inject into the team (which I'm looking for in a senior+ role). I would rather just hire someone who already has the deep bench of JS experience at the same level. Language agnosticism and general intelligence should be applauded far more than the industry currently does. The reason for this is because I'm not hiring for the craft of software engineering, which your perspective aligns with, I'm hiring to achieve business objectives quickly, efficiently and to a high standard. Not realizing that most hiring businesses are optimizing for the latter and not the former is what trips a lot of career software engineers up. You see yourself as a craftsperson, the employer sees you as a resource to achieve their business objectives.
    - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
      >I'm hiring to achieve business objectives quickly, efficiently and to a high standard Don't misunderstand, I do understand the point of view from hiring managers. But in the current job market, where people change jobs rapidly to actually obtain said knowledge while at the same time technology continues to change rapidly (often repeating the cycle rather than actually innovating), surely it should be evident this isn't going to be efficient if not sustainable in the long run. If anything, you're giving people the exact arguments why we shouldn't trust companies to act for the good of the industry long term.

It always baffles me that companies which struggle hiring, can take the decision to reject a candidate like him during the screening process ...

by polote 4y ago

It always baffles me that companies which struggle hiring, can take the decision to reject a candidate like him during the screening process ...

lloydatkinson 4y ago

Reminds me of this https://twitter.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768?lang=en https://twitter.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768?lang=en

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

This is way more common than you think and it seems like it's a tragedy of the commons. Companies struggle to hire, yet have crazy demands and interview practices that filter out good candidates with potential, because they're looking for the 'perfect candidate', whatever that means to them. From my experience, the whole shortage in this industry is mostly companies being too picky, because they're afraid of the small chance of letting in a less ideal candidate. And I'm not even talking about unicorns/FAANGs/big-tech, but regular companies.

ushakov 4y ago
yeah but we need to pretend there’s a shortage, so we can import cheap slave-like labour from third-world countries
- scarface74 4y ago
  There is nothing “cheap” about how much companies pay most H1Bs compared to the average salary in the US. Now the policies and regulations around how they are treated is a different story.

lbriner 4y ago

What is baffling? OP explains that they didn't have certain things on their CV. If I was hiring for a JS app and the applicant was all Java or .Net, it is no disrespect to them to filter them out at the CV stage. I can only speak for myself but as a Dev of 20 years, mainly in .Net (but with Java, Obj-C, PHP and JS experience) I wouldn't dream of applying for a JS job because despite the trope, it is not easy for a Senior to switch languages and just pick it up.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
I'm going to rail against this. The far majority of tools are not so obscenely complex you can't learn the majority of it. The far majority of jobs are not so obscenely difficult you need the bleeding edge implementations available in those tools. Looking online, the amount of information available to do what you want is insane. There's almost always someone who has already done things, especially for technologies older than a few years. This is even more problematic considering this selection is done on framework and library level as well, and many other tools. At the same time, making a tech stack is much like creating an ice cream cone with thousands of flavors, decorations and even cones available. Language agnosticism and general intelligence should be applauded far more than the industry currently does. Many toolmakers are doing their best to make using their tools as seamless as possible, and they are doing a good job at it.
- dotBen 4y ago
  Sure, and if I may I'll politely rail back as a former hiring manager... :D I have no doubt that the senior software engineer with plenty of .net/python/whatever experience could pick up the needed JS if they were given the position. But there's going to be extended ramp up time as they familiarize themselves, they won't know the libraries let alone their intricacies and idiosyncrasies etc, they won't have a lot of language specific fresh approaches and experience to inject into the team (which I'm looking for in a senior+ role). I would rather just hire someone who already has the deep bench of JS experience at the same level. Language agnosticism and general intelligence should be applauded far more than the industry currently does. The reason for this is because I'm not hiring for the craft of software engineering, which your perspective aligns with, I'm hiring to achieve business objectives quickly, efficiently and to a high standard. Not realizing that most hiring businesses are optimizing for the latter and not the former is what trips a lot of career software engineers up. You see yourself as a craftsperson, the employer sees you as a resource to achieve their business objectives.
  - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    >I'm hiring to achieve business objectives quickly, efficiently and to a high standard Don't misunderstand, I do understand the point of view from hiring managers. But in the current job market, where people change jobs rapidly to actually obtain said knowledge while at the same time technology continues to change rapidly (often repeating the cycle rather than actually innovating), surely it should be evident this isn't going to be efficient if not sustainable in the long run. If anything, you're giving people the exact arguments why we shouldn't trust companies to act for the good of the industry long term.