4 ms·

I think your post paints a false dichotomy. It's not always a choice between working from home and commuting huge distances to an office in a city you hate. I

by Closi 4y ago

I think your post paints a false dichotomy. It's not always a choice between working from home and commuting huge distances to an office in a city you hate. I live 10 minutes from the office and live in a town I love. This isn't luck - it's a choice I have made. Also, please don't take this the wrong way, but some of your comments make it sound like you might be in the category of people who don't find it as easy as others to form relationships with colleagues in real life (Comments such as finding socialising events at work stressful, and about experiencing sexual tension if there is a worker of the opposite sex).

TomSwirly 4y ago
> I live 10 minutes from the office and live in a town I love. This isn't luck - it's a choice I have made. 95% of people don't get that choice. What junior engineer is going to turn down an offer from Google because the Mountain View area is a wildly expensive dump?
- kristiandupont 4y ago
  Perhaps 95% of people truly don't get that choice, but your hypothetical junior engineer certainly does, at least given the current market for developers. Unless you consider "taking the highest paying job above anything else" to be an irrepressible force.
- Closi 4y ago
  > 95% of people don't get that choice. > What junior engineer is going to turn down an offer from Google because the Mountain View area is a wildly expensive dump? Well in my view that actually is a choice. They are making a choice between commuting lots and living somewhere they don’t want to in exchange for career advancement / to work for Google. That’s not to say that they might not be happier with alternative decisions. Or maybe they decide to suck it up for a while and move where they want later down the line? But these are all choices.
twayt 4y ago
> I think your post paints a false dichotomy Nope. Never said it is "always a choice between working from home and commuting huge distances to an office in a city you hate". It is a counterpoint to the original comment that hypothesizes that most people who enjoy working from home do so due to some social deficit. > people who don't find it as easy as others to form relationships with colleagues in real life If you read my comment carefully you would notice that I mentioned I already have great relationships with my colleagues that have persisted through remote work. So not sure where that inference is coming from. Second, I am not going to take it the wrong way, but your comment makes it seem like you have some insight into a complete stranger's life without any information to go off of. I would probably not be so overconfident in making such statements about someone else's life. Putting that aside, your reasoning seems incomplete. Why does finding socializing events at work stressful imply someone doesn't find it easy to form relationships with colleagues in real life? Surely it depends on how the colleagues behave in those settings and the nature of those events does it not? For example, grabbing lunch with a coworker is very different from contrived board game events where everyone is trying to compete for who the smartest person is and people make awkward comments linking their board game talents to their work competence. > experiencing sexual tension if there is a worker of the opposite sex I don't feel the need to debate this point at all. If you are a human with a healthy mental and hormonal profile and are around someone you find attractive, you will inevitably find yourself in a situation where you need to suppress certain feelings that may be sexual in nature in order to work with them. It can be done and is usually done without a second thought, but it takes effort and is a lot easier to do over video conferencing. It is human to have certain impulses, be it sexual, status oriented or fight/flight related when you're physically surrounded by people. They need to be dealt with effectively in order to be productive and even keeled.
- Closi 4y ago
  > Second, I am not going to take it the wrong way, but your comment makes it seem like you have some insight into a complete stranger's life without any information to go off of. I mean it was just a hunch, but looking at your comment history definitely implies it too. For instance, while your response states that you are comfortable getting lunch your post history says this: > Feel like a social failure during lunch and forced to sit passively as a couple douchebag workers on adderall dominate the conversation? [I] Feel like a bitch for a few hours. Which implies the opposite. > Attractive coworker or someone I want to impress within sight? I can’t concentrate on actual productivity and try to overcompensate by typing more and acting zoned in. > I find that I get more emotionally jerked around working in person and can insulate myself from it working from home. I mean all this seems to follow the same idea. It’s totally cool, each to their own and it’s fine, but to me this matches the trend that some people working from home don’t seem to have the same ease at forming relationships in work in real life.
civilized 4y ago
It's naive and a function of serious privilege to posit that your home and job location are generally just a choice you can simply make. If you want a nice environment and a short commute, that substantially limits your opportunities. If you have a family or other ties with their own geographic restrictions, vastly more so. You absolutely were lucky to find something you liked. Saying otherwise is a textbook example of being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple.
- hawksprite 4y ago
  Maybe not simply. But a hard choice is still a choice.
- Closi 4y ago
  > You absolutely were lucky to find something you liked. Saying otherwise is a textbook example of being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple. Well I don't think I was lucky actually - I sacrificed for it. I could be based in London and have a better salary and different opportunities. I'm privileged in that I have skills that are in demand in several cities/towns and no dependents, but I suspect lots of people are in that place on this website, and these things are choices. Not everyone has to choose to take the biggest salary with the biggest companies somewhere they hate. If you are a programmer in the UK for instance, the best programming jobs with the highest salaries are in London, but there are plenty of opportunities in Leeds, Manchester, Sutton Colefield, Edinburgh, Bristol, Brighton, York, Oxford, Bath... All places which are lovely to live in and will give you jobs within 10 minutes if you choose to have that life.

by Closi 4y ago

TomSwirly 4y ago

> I live 10 minutes from the office and live in a town I love. This isn't luck - it's a choice I have made. 95% of people don't get that choice. What junior engineer is going to turn down an offer from Google because the Mountain View area is a wildly expensive dump?

kristiandupont 4y ago
Perhaps 95% of people truly don't get that choice, but your hypothetical junior engineer certainly does, at least given the current market for developers. Unless you consider "taking the highest paying job above anything else" to be an irrepressible force.
Closi 4y ago
> 95% of people don't get that choice. > What junior engineer is going to turn down an offer from Google because the Mountain View area is a wildly expensive dump? Well in my view that actually is a choice. They are making a choice between commuting lots and living somewhere they don’t want to in exchange for career advancement / to work for Google. That’s not to say that they might not be happier with alternative decisions. Or maybe they decide to suck it up for a while and move where they want later down the line? But these are all choices.

twayt 4y ago

> I think your post paints a false dichotomy Nope. Never said it is "always a choice between working from home and commuting huge distances to an office in a city you hate". It is a counterpoint to the original comment that hypothesizes that most people who enjoy working from home do so due to some social deficit. > people who don't find it as easy as others to form relationships with colleagues in real life If you read my comment carefully you would notice that I mentioned I already have great relationships with my colleagues that have persisted through remote work. So not sure where that inference is coming from. Second, I am not going to take it the wrong way, but your comment makes it seem like you have some insight into a complete stranger's life without any information to go off of. I would probably not be so overconfident in making such statements about someone else's life. Putting that aside, your reasoning seems incomplete. Why does finding socializing events at work stressful imply someone doesn't find it easy to form relationships with colleagues in real life? Surely it depends on how the colleagues behave in those settings and the nature of those events does it not? For example, grabbing lunch with a coworker is very different from contrived board game events where everyone is trying to compete for who the smartest person is and people make awkward comments linking their board game talents to their work competence. > experiencing sexual tension if there is a worker of the opposite sex I don't feel the need to debate this point at all. If you are a human with a healthy mental and hormonal profile and are around someone you find attractive, you will inevitably find yourself in a situation where you need to suppress certain feelings that may be sexual in nature in order to work with them. It can be done and is usually done without a second thought, but it takes effort and is a lot easier to do over video conferencing. It is human to have certain impulses, be it sexual, status oriented or fight/flight related when you're physically surrounded by people. They need to be dealt with effectively in order to be productive and even keeled.

Closi 4y ago
> Second, I am not going to take it the wrong way, but your comment makes it seem like you have some insight into a complete stranger's life without any information to go off of. I mean it was just a hunch, but looking at your comment history definitely implies it too. For instance, while your response states that you are comfortable getting lunch your post history says this: > Feel like a social failure during lunch and forced to sit passively as a couple douchebag workers on adderall dominate the conversation? [I] Feel like a bitch for a few hours. Which implies the opposite. > Attractive coworker or someone I want to impress within sight? I can’t concentrate on actual productivity and try to overcompensate by typing more and acting zoned in. > I find that I get more emotionally jerked around working in person and can insulate myself from it working from home. I mean all this seems to follow the same idea. It’s totally cool, each to their own and it’s fine, but to me this matches the trend that some people working from home don’t seem to have the same ease at forming relationships in work in real life.

civilized 4y ago

It's naive and a function of serious privilege to posit that your home and job location are generally just a choice you can simply make. If you want a nice environment and a short commute, that substantially limits your opportunities. If you have a family or other ties with their own geographic restrictions, vastly more so. You absolutely were lucky to find something you liked. Saying otherwise is a textbook example of being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple.

hawksprite 4y ago
Maybe not simply. But a hard choice is still a choice.
Closi 4y ago
> You absolutely were lucky to find something you liked. Saying otherwise is a textbook example of being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple. Well I don't think I was lucky actually - I sacrificed for it. I could be based in London and have a better salary and different opportunities. I'm privileged in that I have skills that are in demand in several cities/towns and no dependents, but I suspect lots of people are in that place on this website, and these things are choices. Not everyone has to choose to take the biggest salary with the biggest companies somewhere they hate. If you are a programmer in the UK for instance, the best programming jobs with the highest salaries are in London, but there are plenty of opportunities in Leeds, Manchester, Sutton Colefield, Edinburgh, Bristol, Brighton, York, Oxford, Bath... All places which are lovely to live in and will give you jobs within 10 minutes if you choose to have that life.