4 ms·

What exactly do you learn from your coworkers? It isn't like you are pair programming constantly with senior devs all the time. I've learnt way more reading pa

by twayt 4y ago

What exactly do you learn from your coworkers? It isn't like you are pair programming constantly with senior devs all the time. I've learnt way more reading papers and documentation than being in the same physical space as more senior colleagues. People sometimes bring this point up re: onboarding but I don't quite understand what people learn that they can't do otherwise remotely.

matt89 4y ago
Different people absorb knowledge in different ways. Just because you learned the most by reading articles doesn't mean that is true for everyone. I believe there is value in newcomers/junior devs begin in close proximity with their more experienced coworkers because this greatly improves the chance to talk about important work-related topics. Many times in my live I have started a casual conversation with someone at work and this lead to discussion about current work-related software topics and I was able to share some opinions with someone. These things happen much more rarely when they are scheduled slack calls, and people seldomly just slack to talk about random things.
- twayt 4y ago
  > Different people absorb knowledge in different ways. Just because you learned the most by reading articles doesn't mean that is true for everyone. ...and that's precisely the reason I asked the question > Many times in my live I have started a casual conversation with someone at work and this lead to discussion about current work-related software topics and I was able to share some opinions with someone. This sounds like general information sharing amongst coworkers. The way you phrased the comment made it seem like there was something specific you were referring to pertaining to newcomers/junior devs. I agree with your point that you have less airtime to share your general thoughts about interesting things in a remote setting. I do agree with your general point and have experienced that too. Just observing more certain people equivocate about a topic is inspiring and that helps to learn more.
Sebb767 4y ago
For me, it's lunch breaks and coffee machine chit-chat. Just by talking to your colleagues daily and meeting people you'd usually never work with you get a lot of knowledge transfer - they talk about problems they need to solve, interesting challenges or just hobbies. You can also do after hour events on Zoom, but it's just not the same relaxed atmosphere as in the office and it nearly never happens randomly.
- twayt 4y ago
  Agreed, it is great when it works. I don't miss it though, many times in the past, it has been some "senior" dev high on his own stimulant supply dominating the conversation for the entire lunch, not letting anyone else get a word in edgewise. Either that, or it is the same 3 people talking about things that interest them, completely ignoring the rest of the people while the others just eat their lunch and observe.
ZephyrBlu 4y ago
More chance to chat about random things or casually ask work-related questions. > I've learnt way more reading papers and documentation than being in the same physical space as more senior colleagues. People sometimes bring this point up re: onboarding but I don't quite understand what people learn that they can't do otherwise remotely It is much harder to gain tacit knowledge (The important stuff) when you're remote. I read a lot, and it's no match for picking a skilled person's brain for even just 30min-1hr. I've found I generally have to explicitly ask if I want someone to explain what they're doing and why. There is very little 1:1 teaching/mentoring. In an office I think there is more informal mentoring.
- twayt 4y ago
  > It is much harder to gain tacit knowledge (The important stuff) when you're remote. I read a lot, and it's no match for picking a skilled person's brain for even just 30min-1hr. I have the exact opposite experience. During discussions, people are less informed with facts and speak conceptually. In a book or documentation, there's both. Thus is easier to get more reliable information. It is easier to follow logical chains constructed people but the constituents of said chain could potentially be fraught with approximations, thus obfuscating the entire story. I've discussed topics with really smart people (experts in their field) for hours with many potential ideas but no conclusion. But I only had to read documentation/code for 30min to understand exactly what the real gist of the field was about.
  - ZephyrBlu 4y ago
    By definition, tacit knowledge is hard to codify. If you're reading facts or documentation it's definitely not tacit knowledge. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_knowledge https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_knowledge > It is easier to follow logical chains constructed people but the constituents of said chain could potentially be fraught with approximations, thus obfuscating the entire story. It's not possible to logically explain everything. Intuition is very important. Hence, the value of tacit knowledge. I would generally much rather hear an expert talk conceptually and about their intuition than them give me a lecture on logic and facts. It's impossible to glean some things through pure logic. For example, what is clean code?

by twayt 4y ago

matt89 4y ago

Different people absorb knowledge in different ways. Just because you learned the most by reading articles doesn't mean that is true for everyone. I believe there is value in newcomers/junior devs begin in close proximity with their more experienced coworkers because this greatly improves the chance to talk about important work-related topics. Many times in my live I have started a casual conversation with someone at work and this lead to discussion about current work-related software topics and I was able to share some opinions with someone. These things happen much more rarely when they are scheduled slack calls, and people seldomly just slack to talk about random things.

twayt 4y ago
> Different people absorb knowledge in different ways. Just because you learned the most by reading articles doesn't mean that is true for everyone. ...and that's precisely the reason I asked the question > Many times in my live I have started a casual conversation with someone at work and this lead to discussion about current work-related software topics and I was able to share some opinions with someone. This sounds like general information sharing amongst coworkers. The way you phrased the comment made it seem like there was something specific you were referring to pertaining to newcomers/junior devs. I agree with your point that you have less airtime to share your general thoughts about interesting things in a remote setting. I do agree with your general point and have experienced that too. Just observing more certain people equivocate about a topic is inspiring and that helps to learn more.

Sebb767 4y ago

For me, it's lunch breaks and coffee machine chit-chat. Just by talking to your colleagues daily and meeting people you'd usually never work with you get a lot of knowledge transfer - they talk about problems they need to solve, interesting challenges or just hobbies. You can also do after hour events on Zoom, but it's just not the same relaxed atmosphere as in the office and it nearly never happens randomly.

twayt 4y ago
Agreed, it is great when it works. I don't miss it though, many times in the past, it has been some "senior" dev high on his own stimulant supply dominating the conversation for the entire lunch, not letting anyone else get a word in edgewise. Either that, or it is the same 3 people talking about things that interest them, completely ignoring the rest of the people while the others just eat their lunch and observe.

ZephyrBlu 4y ago

More chance to chat about random things or casually ask work-related questions. > I've learnt way more reading papers and documentation than being in the same physical space as more senior colleagues. People sometimes bring this point up re: onboarding but I don't quite understand what people learn that they can't do otherwise remotely It is much harder to gain tacit knowledge (The important stuff) when you're remote. I read a lot, and it's no match for picking a skilled person's brain for even just 30min-1hr. I've found I generally have to explicitly ask if I want someone to explain what they're doing and why. There is very little 1:1 teaching/mentoring. In an office I think there is more informal mentoring.

twayt 4y ago
> It is much harder to gain tacit knowledge (The important stuff) when you're remote. I read a lot, and it's no match for picking a skilled person's brain for even just 30min-1hr. I have the exact opposite experience. During discussions, people are less informed with facts and speak conceptually. In a book or documentation, there's both. Thus is easier to get more reliable information. It is easier to follow logical chains constructed people but the constituents of said chain could potentially be fraught with approximations, thus obfuscating the entire story. I've discussed topics with really smart people (experts in their field) for hours with many potential ideas but no conclusion. But I only had to read documentation/code for 30min to understand exactly what the real gist of the field was about.
- ZephyrBlu 4y ago
  By definition, tacit knowledge is hard to codify. If you're reading facts or documentation it's definitely not tacit knowledge. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_knowledge https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_knowledge > It is easier to follow logical chains constructed people but the constituents of said chain could potentially be fraught with approximations, thus obfuscating the entire story. It's not possible to logically explain everything. Intuition is very important. Hence, the value of tacit knowledge. I would generally much rather hear an expert talk conceptually and about their intuition than them give me a lecture on logic and facts. It's impossible to glean some things through pure logic. For example, what is clean code?