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This is unquestionably false for everyone I know including myself. 1. Many people already have built good relationships with their colleagues prior to WFH and

by twayt 4y ago

This is unquestionably false for everyone I know including myself. 1. Many people already have built good relationships with their colleagues prior to WFH and talking to them over GVC helps the relationship. You are allowed to open up more when you know no one else is around except you and the person you're talking to 1:1. You don't have to be afraid that someone outside the meeting room or cubicle is going to hear you. A lot of the day-to-day frictions are also removed from the equation. Being completely honest, things like appearance, odor, height differences, physical presence, status symbols (watches, car keys, wallet, phones) all cause insecurities in a competitive office space. I find that in a remote work setting, you can focus more on the person as an individual. 2. Working remotely offers the flexibility to work from a location that better suits your social preferences. A LOT of my friends and myself were completely and utterly miserable socially working in the Bay Area. As soon as we had the option, we moved out and have built thriving social circles. It is not always the person's fault if they struggle to form meaningful friendships. It can also be the environment and whether it is a good fit. This eases social insecurity and allows colleagues to connect more authentically. 3. Working remotely offers the flexibility to detach from work and go do other things (if you don't have meetings etc.). This allows you to interact with people outside the office more and develop more meaningful relationships over time. Remote work isn't about being locked up in a room and only communicating through a webcam. It is primarily about removing the unnecessary overhead that we previously thought was a prerequisite of work (e.g. commuting, "fake work", watercooler conversations, stressful and contrived socializing events at work, open office plans, can't work on other things during unnecessary meetings, running into people you don't like or who distract you, sexual tension with workers of the opposite sex, being exposed to people's bad moods, dirty public restrooms, walking to meeting rooms across the building, working from a cramped cubicle with smelly people, who can type louder and faster competitions, etc. etc. etc.)

Closi 4y ago
I think your post paints a false dichotomy. It's not always a choice between working from home and commuting huge distances to an office in a city you hate. I live 10 minutes from the office and live in a town I love. This isn't luck - it's a choice I have made. Also, please don't take this the wrong way, but some of your comments make it sound like you might be in the category of people who don't find it as easy as others to form relationships with colleagues in real life (Comments such as finding socialising events at work stressful, and about experiencing sexual tension if there is a worker of the opposite sex).
- TomSwirly 4y ago
  > I live 10 minutes from the office and live in a town I love. This isn't luck - it's a choice I have made. 95% of people don't get that choice. What junior engineer is going to turn down an offer from Google because the Mountain View area is a wildly expensive dump?
  - kristiandupont 4y ago
    Perhaps 95% of people truly don't get that choice, but your hypothetical junior engineer certainly does, at least given the current market for developers. Unless you consider "taking the highest paying job above anything else" to be an irrepressible force.
  - Closi 4y ago
    > 95% of people don't get that choice. > What junior engineer is going to turn down an offer from Google because the Mountain View area is a wildly expensive dump? Well in my view that actually is a choice. They are making a choice between commuting lots and living somewhere they don’t want to in exchange for career advancement / to work for Google. That’s not to say that they might not be happier with alternative decisions. Or maybe they decide to suck it up for a while and move where they want later down the line? But these are all choices.
- twayt 4y ago
  > I think your post paints a false dichotomy Nope. Never said it is "always a choice between working from home and commuting huge distances to an office in a city you hate". It is a counterpoint to the original comment that hypothesizes that most people who enjoy working from home do so due to some social deficit. > people who don't find it as easy as others to form relationships with colleagues in real life If you read my comment carefully you would notice that I mentioned I already have great relationships with my colleagues that have persisted through remote work. So not sure where that inference is coming from. Second, I am not going to take it the wrong way, but your comment makes it seem like you have some insight into a complete stranger's life without any information to go off of. I would probably not be so overconfident in making such statements about someone else's life. Putting that aside, your reasoning seems incomplete. Why does finding socializing events at work stressful imply someone doesn't find it easy to form relationships with colleagues in real life? Surely it depends on how the colleagues behave in those settings and the nature of those events does it not? For example, grabbing lunch with a coworker is very different from contrived board game events where everyone is trying to compete for who the smartest person is and people make awkward comments linking their board game talents to their work competence. > experiencing sexual tension if there is a worker of the opposite sex I don't feel the need to debate this point at all. If you are a human with a healthy mental and hormonal profile and are around someone you find attractive, you will inevitably find yourself in a situation where you need to suppress certain feelings that may be sexual in nature in order to work with them. It can be done and is usually done without a second thought, but it takes effort and is a lot easier to do over video conferencing. It is human to have certain impulses, be it sexual, status oriented or fight/flight related when you're physically surrounded by people. They need to be dealt with effectively in order to be productive and even keeled.
nevermindiguess 4y ago
I would summarize your comment as “just give me the money and don’t bother me.” Easy to say that when stronger people than you have put up just with the things that your delicate character is unwilling to put up with, to build great thriving businesses and afford people like you the luxury of WFH. I say ‘grow up’! Face those aspect of the office work that brother you. Became a stronger person. Be more courageous. Our society does not need more incels working from home because ‘they don’t like the person sitting next to them’. Don’t be a leech on society. Get out and contribute.

by twayt 4y ago

Closi 4y ago

I think your post paints a false dichotomy. It's not always a choice between working from home and commuting huge distances to an office in a city you hate. I live 10 minutes from the office and live in a town I love. This isn't luck - it's a choice I have made. Also, please don't take this the wrong way, but some of your comments make it sound like you might be in the category of people who don't find it as easy as others to form relationships with colleagues in real life (Comments such as finding socialising events at work stressful, and about experiencing sexual tension if there is a worker of the opposite sex).

TomSwirly 4y ago
> I live 10 minutes from the office and live in a town I love. This isn't luck - it's a choice I have made. 95% of people don't get that choice. What junior engineer is going to turn down an offer from Google because the Mountain View area is a wildly expensive dump?
- kristiandupont 4y ago
  Perhaps 95% of people truly don't get that choice, but your hypothetical junior engineer certainly does, at least given the current market for developers. Unless you consider "taking the highest paying job above anything else" to be an irrepressible force.
- Closi 4y ago
  > 95% of people don't get that choice. > What junior engineer is going to turn down an offer from Google because the Mountain View area is a wildly expensive dump? Well in my view that actually is a choice. They are making a choice between commuting lots and living somewhere they don’t want to in exchange for career advancement / to work for Google. That’s not to say that they might not be happier with alternative decisions. Or maybe they decide to suck it up for a while and move where they want later down the line? But these are all choices.
twayt 4y ago
> I think your post paints a false dichotomy Nope. Never said it is "always a choice between working from home and commuting huge distances to an office in a city you hate". It is a counterpoint to the original comment that hypothesizes that most people who enjoy working from home do so due to some social deficit. > people who don't find it as easy as others to form relationships with colleagues in real life If you read my comment carefully you would notice that I mentioned I already have great relationships with my colleagues that have persisted through remote work. So not sure where that inference is coming from. Second, I am not going to take it the wrong way, but your comment makes it seem like you have some insight into a complete stranger's life without any information to go off of. I would probably not be so overconfident in making such statements about someone else's life. Putting that aside, your reasoning seems incomplete. Why does finding socializing events at work stressful imply someone doesn't find it easy to form relationships with colleagues in real life? Surely it depends on how the colleagues behave in those settings and the nature of those events does it not? For example, grabbing lunch with a coworker is very different from contrived board game events where everyone is trying to compete for who the smartest person is and people make awkward comments linking their board game talents to their work competence. > experiencing sexual tension if there is a worker of the opposite sex I don't feel the need to debate this point at all. If you are a human with a healthy mental and hormonal profile and are around someone you find attractive, you will inevitably find yourself in a situation where you need to suppress certain feelings that may be sexual in nature in order to work with them. It can be done and is usually done without a second thought, but it takes effort and is a lot easier to do over video conferencing. It is human to have certain impulses, be it sexual, status oriented or fight/flight related when you're physically surrounded by people. They need to be dealt with effectively in order to be productive and even keeled.

nevermindiguess 4y ago

I would summarize your comment as “just give me the money and don’t bother me.” Easy to say that when stronger people than you have put up just with the things that your delicate character is unwilling to put up with, to build great thriving businesses and afford people like you the luxury of WFH. I say ‘grow up’! Face those aspect of the office work that brother you. Became a stronger person. Be more courageous. Our society does not need more incels working from home because ‘they don’t like the person sitting next to them’. Don’t be a leech on society. Get out and contribute.