5 ms·

As a person actively applying in EU... the market reeks candidate desperation. Salaries remained constant or even decreased in numbers despite over 10% inflatio

As a person actively applying in EU... the market reeks candidate desperation. Salaries remained constant or even decreased in numbers despite over 10% inflation. Zero flexibility on the employer side "need 5 years of SRE experience for SRE position, need 5 years of DevOps experience for DevOps position, etc". WTF is going on. With the perspective of mangling my brain on the "next cool" Angular stack I'll remain working on personal projects, thanks.

jeffrallen 4y ago
I just got a job in the EU by watching on my desired commute path for new company signs I hadn't noticed before, then researching them. I found a startup in an industry that interested me, made an effort to network my way into the eyes of the CEO, and then made myself available when he had work available. The whole process took 9 months. The front door of companies is always locked due to the unintended consequences of trying to scale up HR and recruiting. Hang out by the side door, and an insider will let you in. (Remember that "bad recruiting" is a problem insiders are trying to solve, just as you are.)
- 0xfaded 4y ago
  I think there's some wisdom in this. A huge amount of talent is about to be unlocked and a lot of BS cleared. The good ideas will continue to be funded, so keeping a keen eye out and being in a position to jump makes sense.
- mathverse 4y ago
  9 months is an absolutely stupidly long for an EU position. The pay is so meh that it is not worth it
  - jeffrallen 4y ago
    9 months is a typical amount of time it takes to network your way into a company. The key is patience, persistence, keeping multiple options open, flexibility, and understanding the needs of your future colleagues. When it works it looks lucky, but you can't rush "luck" of this type. :)
    - mathverse 4y ago
      That does not sound right?....Usual IT positions in Europe (50-80k jobs) always took max 1-2 months for me.
      - jeffrallen 4y ago
        If you apply by the front door, and get in, fine, maybe you get some job in 2 months. But the best jobs are not available that way. Mine was not.
        mathverse 4y ago
        I partially agree but in Europe (with a mortgage) I am no longer able to judge what's a good job vs "the best job".
  - blagie 4y ago
    I've generally taken at least that long looking for new jobs. It depends on whether you want /a/ position, or /the/ position. My past few jobs have been perfect fits for my background and interests, and I genuinely enjoyed work. A random SWE position is petty fungible. Perfect fits are rare. Markets are pretty inefficient too, so you can command better salary or benefits, if you want.
    - jeffrallen 4y ago
      Or better commute, meaning of work, or intellectual stimulation. Put yourself into a situation where you can take your time, then take it. You are responsible for making your own reality.
      - LightG 4y ago
        Agree with all of the above. Currently in a stable job and 6 months and counting into my job search. Absolute desire to leave but not for some rubbish compromise out of desperation. It can be frustrating but I believe it will be worthwhile to get the right role. And, importantly, I'm in no despeate rush.
sofixa 4y ago
EU is pretty big and varied, the markets in Spain, Slovenia and Estonia are probably quite different, let alone per city. I can assure you none of what you said applies to France (at least Paris but many of the jobs i see/saw/interviewed for were fully remote, so I don't see why they wouldn't accept people from other areas of France).
- fer 4y ago
  France resident here, anecdotal evidence, but Paris (and IDF) companies tend to only accept +100% match (close to 100% requirements + big chunk of the "nice to haves") for remote positions. If you miss anything from their stack they just pick someone else since the pool is much bigger. If you live in IDF they seem to care less about you being a perfect fit.
Yoric 4y ago
As someone who changed job last year, I didn't feel that pressure. My anecdotal experience was pretty much the opposite. I was looking for remote work, could be related?
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 4y ago
  What time last year? Inflation has advanced quite a bit even since November.
ushakov 4y ago
have you tried applying to US-based startups with offices in EU? pay is 2x average + bonuses/stock options still nowhere near US though

jeffrallen 4y ago

I just got a job in the EU by watching on my desired commute path for new company signs I hadn't noticed before, then researching them. I found a startup in an industry that interested me, made an effort to network my way into the eyes of the CEO, and then made myself available when he had work available. The whole process took 9 months. The front door of companies is always locked due to the unintended consequences of trying to scale up HR and recruiting. Hang out by the side door, and an insider will let you in. (Remember that "bad recruiting" is a problem insiders are trying to solve, just as you are.)

0xfaded 4y ago
I think there's some wisdom in this. A huge amount of talent is about to be unlocked and a lot of BS cleared. The good ideas will continue to be funded, so keeping a keen eye out and being in a position to jump makes sense.
mathverse 4y ago
9 months is an absolutely stupidly long for an EU position. The pay is so meh that it is not worth it
- jeffrallen 4y ago
  9 months is a typical amount of time it takes to network your way into a company. The key is patience, persistence, keeping multiple options open, flexibility, and understanding the needs of your future colleagues. When it works it looks lucky, but you can't rush "luck" of this type. :)
  - mathverse 4y ago
    That does not sound right?....Usual IT positions in Europe (50-80k jobs) always took max 1-2 months for me.
    - jeffrallen 4y ago
      If you apply by the front door, and get in, fine, maybe you get some job in 2 months. But the best jobs are not available that way. Mine was not.
      - mathverse 4y ago
        I partially agree but in Europe (with a mortgage) I am no longer able to judge what's a good job vs "the best job".
- blagie 4y ago
  I've generally taken at least that long looking for new jobs. It depends on whether you want /a/ position, or /the/ position. My past few jobs have been perfect fits for my background and interests, and I genuinely enjoyed work. A random SWE position is petty fungible. Perfect fits are rare. Markets are pretty inefficient too, so you can command better salary or benefits, if you want.
  - jeffrallen 4y ago
    Or better commute, meaning of work, or intellectual stimulation. Put yourself into a situation where you can take your time, then take it. You are responsible for making your own reality.
    - LightG 4y ago
      Agree with all of the above. Currently in a stable job and 6 months and counting into my job search. Absolute desire to leave but not for some rubbish compromise out of desperation. It can be frustrating but I believe it will be worthwhile to get the right role. And, importantly, I'm in no despeate rush.

sofixa 4y ago

EU is pretty big and varied, the markets in Spain, Slovenia and Estonia are probably quite different, let alone per city. I can assure you none of what you said applies to France (at least Paris but many of the jobs i see/saw/interviewed for were fully remote, so I don't see why they wouldn't accept people from other areas of France).

fer 4y ago
France resident here, anecdotal evidence, but Paris (and IDF) companies tend to only accept +100% match (close to 100% requirements + big chunk of the "nice to haves") for remote positions. If you miss anything from their stack they just pick someone else since the pool is much bigger. If you live in IDF they seem to care less about you being a perfect fit.

Yoric 4y ago

As someone who changed job last year, I didn't feel that pressure. My anecdotal experience was pretty much the opposite. I was looking for remote work, could be related?

isbvhodnvemrwvn 4y ago
What time last year? Inflation has advanced quite a bit even since November.

ushakov 4y ago

have you tried applying to US-based startups with offices in EU? pay is 2x average + bonuses/stock options still nowhere near US though