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I wonder what I'm missing in this concept. You would think that the people in charge would see that real estate is an unnecessary expense, where applicable. A

I wonder what I'm missing in this concept. You would think that the people in charge would see that real estate is an unnecessary expense, where applicable. Also, I've been to a lot of meetings where we were told "there are other things people value in work besides money". Maybe being able to manage your own work environment and save gas and time fits in that slot. A content, well rested workforce would be better IMO than one that's frazzled and is getting less out of their employment than they know is possible. I'm at the age where I see Time as more valuable than anything, really.

jonathankoren 4y ago
> You would think that the people in charge would see that real estate is an unnecessary expense, where applicable. Some real estate is a sunk cost, and the execs doubling down on it. Apple and Google both dropped 2 or 3 billion combined on fancy new offices just before the pandemic. You can’t sell those buildings, their too big, and they’re not subdivided well enough to rent out parts of them, so everyone comes back to work
- WWLink 4y ago
  Apple's HQ campus is an interesting one because it's only a small percentage of their employees that actually work there. I imagine if they downsized their silicon valley properties down to infinite loop and the ring building, they'd still be able to easily fill them up with people who like working onsite, conference rooms, meeting spaces, labs, etc. I am not personally aware but I do remember hearing they had office spaces all over the place because they don't have enough room on the main campuses for all of the employees.
  - jonathankoren 4y ago
    Yeah, they still have a lot of offices spread out all over Cupertino.
zo1 4y ago
Eng manager here. Honestly not everyone is sold on remote being better much less equivalent in productivity or output compared to being in an office. Remote also requires a lot of rethinking of team dynamics, work allocation and just plain old making sure stuff is done. Make no mistake, WFH may be arguably better and more pleasant from the employee perspective, but it makes projects more difficult for the rest of the company. Yeah we're not all amazing managers that can make it work and sometimes we do need butts in seats. But also a lot of times, the ICs are slackers, loafing around, lying on tickets, getting bogged down and not speaking up, some need pair programming, some get lonely, some get emotional and miss their team, some have bad home lives and office setups. But yeah sure, blaming it all on evil companies and their supposed sunk cost fallacy investments into real estate is the easy answer, so let's do that.
- np- 4y ago
  > Eng manager here. Honestly not everyone is sold on remote being better much less equivalent in productivity or output compared to being in an office. Ad an IC, I would have potentially believed this if the past two years where everyone was working from home wasn’t anything but unbridled success for the tech industry. Companies literally can’t hire us fast enough right now, and yet there are really still some managers out there wondering about productivity and output? How about looking at the big picture? > But also a lot of times, the ICs are slackers, loafing around, lying on tickets, getting bogged down and not speaking up Again, this is purely about controlling others. If your IC is not performant, there are ways of addressing that like adults with performance and goal reviews, improvement plans, mentoring, etc. Requiring them to come in so they have adult supervision makes me chuckle. Are managers supposed to be like daycare supervisors of children or something? And I’m not trying to rail on you personally, maybe I’m more triggered by my own management, but this whole post reads to me like such typical management speak of “we tried nothing and we are all out of ideas”
  - LunaSea 4y ago
    > Companies literally can’t hire us fast enough right now This always been the case. > Are managers supposed to be like daycare supervisors of children or something? Sometimes, yes. Not every adult behaves like a responsible adult.

jonathankoren 4y ago

> You would think that the people in charge would see that real estate is an unnecessary expense, where applicable. Some real estate is a sunk cost, and the execs doubling down on it. Apple and Google both dropped 2 or 3 billion combined on fancy new offices just before the pandemic. You can’t sell those buildings, their too big, and they’re not subdivided well enough to rent out parts of them, so everyone comes back to work

WWLink 4y ago
Apple's HQ campus is an interesting one because it's only a small percentage of their employees that actually work there. I imagine if they downsized their silicon valley properties down to infinite loop and the ring building, they'd still be able to easily fill them up with people who like working onsite, conference rooms, meeting spaces, labs, etc. I am not personally aware but I do remember hearing they had office spaces all over the place because they don't have enough room on the main campuses for all of the employees.
- jonathankoren 4y ago
  Yeah, they still have a lot of offices spread out all over Cupertino.

zo1 4y ago

Eng manager here. Honestly not everyone is sold on remote being better much less equivalent in productivity or output compared to being in an office. Remote also requires a lot of rethinking of team dynamics, work allocation and just plain old making sure stuff is done. Make no mistake, WFH may be arguably better and more pleasant from the employee perspective, but it makes projects more difficult for the rest of the company. Yeah we're not all amazing managers that can make it work and sometimes we do need butts in seats. But also a lot of times, the ICs are slackers, loafing around, lying on tickets, getting bogged down and not speaking up, some need pair programming, some get lonely, some get emotional and miss their team, some have bad home lives and office setups. But yeah sure, blaming it all on evil companies and their supposed sunk cost fallacy investments into real estate is the easy answer, so let's do that.

np- 4y ago
> Eng manager here. Honestly not everyone is sold on remote being better much less equivalent in productivity or output compared to being in an office. Ad an IC, I would have potentially believed this if the past two years where everyone was working from home wasn’t anything but unbridled success for the tech industry. Companies literally can’t hire us fast enough right now, and yet there are really still some managers out there wondering about productivity and output? How about looking at the big picture? > But also a lot of times, the ICs are slackers, loafing around, lying on tickets, getting bogged down and not speaking up Again, this is purely about controlling others. If your IC is not performant, there are ways of addressing that like adults with performance and goal reviews, improvement plans, mentoring, etc. Requiring them to come in so they have adult supervision makes me chuckle. Are managers supposed to be like daycare supervisors of children or something? And I’m not trying to rail on you personally, maybe I’m more triggered by my own management, but this whole post reads to me like such typical management speak of “we tried nothing and we are all out of ideas”
- LunaSea 4y ago
  > Companies literally can’t hire us fast enough right now This always been the case. > Are managers supposed to be like daycare supervisors of children or something? Sometimes, yes. Not every adult behaves like a responsible adult.