5 ms·

The gamer's language for these things actually seems to be pretty relevant. A tank needs to be able to move forward into the thick of the battle, and be able to

The gamer's language for these things actually seems to be pretty relevant. A tank needs to be able to move forward into the thick of the battle, and be able to give and receive a dishing. A WoW warrior class is a tank. It can give and receive a dishing. A DnD rogue class is not a tank. It would not move forward into battle in a frontal assault, with the intent of pushing a breakthrough.

redisman 4y ago
That’s a bit selective. I would say that a tanks main duty is to draw aggro from main damage dealers and support and act as a damage sponge.
baud147258 4y ago
though most video game tanks don't need to dish much damage, instead the damage is done by the dedicated DPSs
- lupire 4y ago
  Why do enemies attack tanks, if tanks don't dish damage? ("Tanks are used in games because game AI is dumb" is not a very good answer for extrapolation and metaphor.) How is a tank not a shield?
  - daniel-cussen 4y ago
    There's something about tanks that makes them a priority. Games are set up so the tank can absorb damage done to others, or heal, stuff like that. Because the roles of each fighter are baked into eg League of Legends, there are reasons tanks play the role of a tank. And yeah, opponents try to kill the other roles first, but the the job of a tank is to make that hard.
  - dragontamer 4y ago
    Video-game "Tanks" often have a degree of controlling the enemy movement. Slowing enemies down, binding them, preventing movement. So the point of a "tank" is to run in front of the party. If the enemy tries to run around the tank, they get "CC'd" (crowd-controlled" and are then unable to move. The DPS-job is then to run in, kill them while they're under the control of the tank (aka: while the enemy can't move), and that's that. So trying to kill the enemy DPS often just gets your own party out-of-position. As such, you're often forced to kill the enemy tank first. ------- Needless to say, these fantasy fights / video-game fights don't exist in the real world. These roles were setup by video games, probably World of Warcraft and Diablo II before LoL and DotA. (Maybe an earlier game than that?) But when video gamers hear the word "tank", they expect real-world tanks to act... well... like a video-game tank, and not like a real-world tank.
    - csydas 4y ago
      This is an okay definition but it spreads the definition a little thin as you're conflating Player vs Player (PVP) and Player vs Monster (PVM) tanks. With PVM, there is no focus from the monsters directly, they have aggression algorithms, and tanks typically have a way of directly manipulating this (draw aggro). They have skills that improve statistics usually defensive, and sometimes can outright prevent damage with well timed skills. They're "Tanks" because they absorb/prevent damage while keeping attention on themselves. In PVP, Tanks are typically fight starters or stoppers, that is, they come with a skillset that is designed to manipulate the position and movement of other players (often the enemy, sometimes their own), and even sometimes outright incapacitating other players. They are tanks because they have low or 0 damage stun moves, displacement moves (i.e., players are forcibly moved against their will to an disadvantageous position), terrain creation/removal moves (blocks player movement), and typically high health and defensive stats. Tanks in both cases can start fights because they have to pretty much. Their value is not in the damage, but in their ability to set up fights or to absorb damage/attention. For PVP in particular, tanks tend to have very heavy crowd control so you must be careful about if they decide to engage. The .5-2 seconds that is common for crowd control often is "just enough" to remove your main damage dealers from the fight (temporarily or permanently) and then you're at a disadvantage because the team numbers are against you. For PVM, the tank wants to start its skill rotation so it can get specific buffs going and active. ARPGs really don't have tanks btw (mostly RE:Diablo 2). You can certainly build them, but modern diablo forces all players to be damage dealing tanks. Diablo 3 tried to change this a little, but it still just ended up being an "Every stat is perfect" sort of game, and probably with more glass cannon builds.
  - npteljes 4y ago
    >Why do enemies attack tanks, if tanks don't dish damage? The target of the enemies, and their tendency to attack, is usually modeled with "aggro". Damage increases aggro, but aggro can also be manipulated. Tanks usually have ways to increase their aggro, unproportionally to their damage, and DPSes sometimes have ways to lessen their aggro. Actually the tank's task is to take damage and manage aggro so that the enemy doesn't kill the DPS-es or the healers.
    - Macha 4y ago
      In pvp or tabletop games, tanks often come with some penalty to the opponents to motivate them to engage the tank sooner. e.g. damage over time that can be interrupted or mobility restrictions the tank can place down
- mcv 4y ago
  Those are artillery.
periphrasis 4y ago
Eh, MMO lingo presumes that a "tank" class is supposed to take damage. Any tank crew that plans to rely on its armor to survive hits isn't going to live very long.
- mumblemumble 4y ago
  For what it's worth, I'd give an M1 better odds of surviving hits than a B2. Being able to take unreal amounts of damage is sort of general to video games, and not specific to tank character classes. The medic in TF2 can survive more direct hits from a rocket-propelled grenade than a real-world battlefield medic, too.
jltsiren 4y ago
That gamer terminology is a pet peeve of mine. A gamer's tank fills the real-world infantry role. It can hold territory and take a lot of punishment, but it doesn't do much damage to the enemy. The D&D melee rogue, on the other hand, is much like a real-world tank. The rogue moves fast and hits hard but is vulnerable without infantry support.
- lupire 4y ago
  Is a drone aircraft a tank? It moves fast and hits hard.
  - ilammy 4y ago
    Nah, drone is a mage's summon.
mcv 4y ago
But historically, not every tank was a breakthrough tank. Some tanks were not sufficiently armored for a direct frontal assault, and were made for flanking or reinforcement against specific targets. Some tanks are purely defensive, like the S-tank.

redisman 4y ago

That’s a bit selective. I would say that a tanks main duty is to draw aggro from main damage dealers and support and act as a damage sponge.

baud147258 4y ago

though most video game tanks don't need to dish much damage, instead the damage is done by the dedicated DPSs

lupire 4y ago
Why do enemies attack tanks, if tanks don't dish damage? ("Tanks are used in games because game AI is dumb" is not a very good answer for extrapolation and metaphor.) How is a tank not a shield?
- daniel-cussen 4y ago
  There's something about tanks that makes them a priority. Games are set up so the tank can absorb damage done to others, or heal, stuff like that. Because the roles of each fighter are baked into eg League of Legends, there are reasons tanks play the role of a tank. And yeah, opponents try to kill the other roles first, but the the job of a tank is to make that hard.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  Video-game "Tanks" often have a degree of controlling the enemy movement. Slowing enemies down, binding them, preventing movement. So the point of a "tank" is to run in front of the party. If the enemy tries to run around the tank, they get "CC'd" (crowd-controlled" and are then unable to move. The DPS-job is then to run in, kill them while they're under the control of the tank (aka: while the enemy can't move), and that's that. So trying to kill the enemy DPS often just gets your own party out-of-position. As such, you're often forced to kill the enemy tank first. ------- Needless to say, these fantasy fights / video-game fights don't exist in the real world. These roles were setup by video games, probably World of Warcraft and Diablo II before LoL and DotA. (Maybe an earlier game than that?) But when video gamers hear the word "tank", they expect real-world tanks to act... well... like a video-game tank, and not like a real-world tank.
  - csydas 4y ago
    This is an okay definition but it spreads the definition a little thin as you're conflating Player vs Player (PVP) and Player vs Monster (PVM) tanks. With PVM, there is no focus from the monsters directly, they have aggression algorithms, and tanks typically have a way of directly manipulating this (draw aggro). They have skills that improve statistics usually defensive, and sometimes can outright prevent damage with well timed skills. They're "Tanks" because they absorb/prevent damage while keeping attention on themselves. In PVP, Tanks are typically fight starters or stoppers, that is, they come with a skillset that is designed to manipulate the position and movement of other players (often the enemy, sometimes their own), and even sometimes outright incapacitating other players. They are tanks because they have low or 0 damage stun moves, displacement moves (i.e., players are forcibly moved against their will to an disadvantageous position), terrain creation/removal moves (blocks player movement), and typically high health and defensive stats. Tanks in both cases can start fights because they have to pretty much. Their value is not in the damage, but in their ability to set up fights or to absorb damage/attention. For PVP in particular, tanks tend to have very heavy crowd control so you must be careful about if they decide to engage. The .5-2 seconds that is common for crowd control often is "just enough" to remove your main damage dealers from the fight (temporarily or permanently) and then you're at a disadvantage because the team numbers are against you. For PVM, the tank wants to start its skill rotation so it can get specific buffs going and active. ARPGs really don't have tanks btw (mostly RE:Diablo 2). You can certainly build them, but modern diablo forces all players to be damage dealing tanks. Diablo 3 tried to change this a little, but it still just ended up being an "Every stat is perfect" sort of game, and probably with more glass cannon builds.
- npteljes 4y ago
  >Why do enemies attack tanks, if tanks don't dish damage? The target of the enemies, and their tendency to attack, is usually modeled with "aggro". Damage increases aggro, but aggro can also be manipulated. Tanks usually have ways to increase their aggro, unproportionally to their damage, and DPSes sometimes have ways to lessen their aggro. Actually the tank's task is to take damage and manage aggro so that the enemy doesn't kill the DPS-es or the healers.
  - Macha 4y ago
    In pvp or tabletop games, tanks often come with some penalty to the opponents to motivate them to engage the tank sooner. e.g. damage over time that can be interrupted or mobility restrictions the tank can place down
mcv 4y ago
Those are artillery.

periphrasis 4y ago

Eh, MMO lingo presumes that a "tank" class is supposed to take damage. Any tank crew that plans to rely on its armor to survive hits isn't going to live very long.

mumblemumble 4y ago
For what it's worth, I'd give an M1 better odds of surviving hits than a B2. Being able to take unreal amounts of damage is sort of general to video games, and not specific to tank character classes. The medic in TF2 can survive more direct hits from a rocket-propelled grenade than a real-world battlefield medic, too.

jltsiren 4y ago

That gamer terminology is a pet peeve of mine. A gamer's tank fills the real-world infantry role. It can hold territory and take a lot of punishment, but it doesn't do much damage to the enemy. The D&D melee rogue, on the other hand, is much like a real-world tank. The rogue moves fast and hits hard but is vulnerable without infantry support.

lupire 4y ago
Is a drone aircraft a tank? It moves fast and hits hard.
- ilammy 4y ago
  Nah, drone is a mage's summon.

mcv 4y ago

But historically, not every tank was a breakthrough tank. Some tanks were not sufficiently armored for a direct frontal assault, and were made for flanking or reinforcement against specific targets. Some tanks are purely defensive, like the S-tank.