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Not true. Depending on your OS (sorry Windows users) your OS isn't collecting your personal data at every opportunity, and hopefully doesn't allow 3rd parties t

Not true. Depending on your OS (sorry Windows users) your OS isn't collecting your personal data at every opportunity, and hopefully doesn't allow 3rd parties to push code to your devices without notice to you about what's been changed, and without any option for you to opt out of those changes. You must have zero trust in a device where 3rd parties have full access to change whatever they want at any time and for any reason without your knowledge or consent. That's not happening for the linux server in my closet. It's probably happening for the windows 10 system in the living room, and it's absolutely the case for the phone next to me.

kaba0 5y ago
Safety != privacy at all.
- autoexec 5y ago
  The same things that make your privacy vulnerable make your devices vulnerable. It's currently impossible to secure a consumer cell phone. They were explicitly designed to collect and leak your data. When 3rd parties have access to all your data you can't secure it. When 3rd parties can push code to your device without any notice to you, at some point a bad actor will do the same. If you aren't allowed to see what your device is doing you can't see when it's being used by an attacker. If you don't even have permissions to the most important parts of your own hardware/software you can't do anything about it once you are compromised. Cell phones are not private and they aren't secure and that makes them the worst kind of device you could insist on people using to replace their passwords.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    You are concluding things from a false premise. Just because mobile phones are not zero trust devices (note that there is no such thing anywhere!) doesn’t mean they are not secure against malware. While iphones have a really good security and privacy story, I may get that with sufficient tinfoil hat-layers one might choose not to trust apple (though the only target vector would be a deliberate malware created and pushed by apple itself) But there is also the Graphene project which runs on the Pixel phones, where you have complete control over the software. But the hardware will always be somewhat proprietary so you can’t have complete trust in that either. (And no, pinephone and alia just put closed firmware into the hardware not even allowing updating it, which is strictly worse than having it patchable) Nonetheless, both of these options are orders of magnitudes safer than desktop OSs, as per my original statement.

kaba0 5y ago

Safety != privacy at all.

autoexec 5y ago
The same things that make your privacy vulnerable make your devices vulnerable. It's currently impossible to secure a consumer cell phone. They were explicitly designed to collect and leak your data. When 3rd parties have access to all your data you can't secure it. When 3rd parties can push code to your device without any notice to you, at some point a bad actor will do the same. If you aren't allowed to see what your device is doing you can't see when it's being used by an attacker. If you don't even have permissions to the most important parts of your own hardware/software you can't do anything about it once you are compromised. Cell phones are not private and they aren't secure and that makes them the worst kind of device you could insist on people using to replace their passwords.
- kaba0 5y ago
  You are concluding things from a false premise. Just because mobile phones are not zero trust devices (note that there is no such thing anywhere!) doesn’t mean they are not secure against malware. While iphones have a really good security and privacy story, I may get that with sufficient tinfoil hat-layers one might choose not to trust apple (though the only target vector would be a deliberate malware created and pushed by apple itself) But there is also the Graphene project which runs on the Pixel phones, where you have complete control over the software. But the hardware will always be somewhat proprietary so you can’t have complete trust in that either. (And no, pinephone and alia just put closed firmware into the hardware not even allowing updating it, which is strictly worse than having it patchable) Nonetheless, both of these options are orders of magnitudes safer than desktop OSs, as per my original statement.